Photo: Boise Greek Orthodox Church
By Alex Aliferis
9/30/24
In the past thirty-plus years, the Greek Orthodox Church has slowly shed its Hellenic identity for a globalist one.
The original language of the Bible is Greek, not English. Greek festivals are now portrayed as Greek Food Festivals, minus the showcasing of Greek flags, Greek history, etc.
The Greek immigrants who came to America funded the construction of all these Greek Orthodox Churches.
I consider it laziness if many American-born Greeks fail to learn and speak Greek.
I never forgot to speak fluent Greek with family members and other Greeks. In high school, I bought a modern Greek language book to teach myself Greek grammar, writing, reading, etc. In college, I took classical ancient Greek language courses that helped improve my Greek. I spent time with Greek students from Greece at the university. I spoke nothing but Greek with Greek exchange students.
There are no excuses right now to learn or maintain the Greek language.
Globalism does not want Hellenism, Classical Greek history, Greek philosophy, or the Greek language to be taught. The Globalists took control of education in the USA only to banish Greek and Latin language requirements at schools and colleges by the 1950’s.
It is great that Greek music bands still play Greek music with Greek folk dancing. In Greece, the village festivals have the flags of Byzantine and Greece. Even the churches in Greece fly the Byzantine yellow flag along with the Greek flag.
Why aren’t there Greek flags flying on the stage of these Greek bands?
Many churches should include a small historical view of Greece at their Greek festivals.
The USA is facing an existential threat from the Deep State Globalist governing Washington D.C. There is no American Dream as inflation eats into people’s savings and incomes.
It is wise for Greek Americans to obtain a Greek passport and citizenship in Greece. Why?
South Africa collapsed as a nation once Mandela took control in the 1990s. Thousands of South African-born Greeks fled the collapsed state with their Greek passports. Many settled in Greece or Cyprus. The same occurred for Greeks living in the former Soviet Union states during the 1990s.
The story’s morale is that the Greek Orthodox Church of America should embrace a Hellenic identity rather than a Globalist one.
Alex Aliferis has worked in Washington D.C. on issues linked to Greece, and Cyprus.
I couldn’t disagree more. What Greek Churches need more of is traditional Orthodoxy not Hellenism. From what I have learned, living Orthodoxy gives you a better chance to go to paradise. Not sure what “Hellenism” will do to help you get into heavan. BTW, I am Greek and I love my culture, language, and history.
Greek Orthodox churches should embrace the Greek language as part of embracing Hellenism. So often I hear the argument that English modernizes the church and makes it more approachable to youth and converts, without even asking the youth or converts their opinion. Often they say they like the Greek and want to learn. And of course they never ask the opinions of the existing parishioners, many of whom love to hear hymns sung in liturgical Greek and not forced into English. If English is truly the language you want to hear at Liturgy, there are so many options, including OCA. Why demand this of GOA? It’s like walking into a Chinese restaurant and demanding to be served American cuisine. And yes, the flags, the history, the culture should all be embraced. But I posit that first, the language must be accepted as a link not only to Greek heritage, but as a key link to all Christians across time and space, who relied on the Greek texts for their source of the Gospels.
John my friend, respectfully I would tell you that our young people have already expressed their opinion on this. They have voted with their feet. They have left the Church in droves. That is why the GOA has and is shrinking.
We have already moved to the OCA because we will not pray in a Church that commemorates the heretic schismatic Bishop of Istanbul. But had we not already left, we would have gone so eventually. I am already third generation. The Greek I knew when my grandparents were alive is gone. It is more important to hear the Gospel and beautiful hymns in a language the young people understand. They have mostly left and continue to leave and clutching to Greek will only accelerate that.
The long tradition of the Orthodox Church is to pray in the language of the locality. We should always keep some amounts of Greek. But without a large majority of services in English we will soon have only empty museums of Byzantine art.
Michael, well stated. The GOA is in a state of terminal decline and an attempt to re-Hellinize parishes will only speed up the process
Thousands of saints had absolutely no know knowledge of the Creek language.
I disagree. The GOA needs to embrace traditional Orthodoxy.
Neither Hellenism or Globalism will save the Greek Archdiocese, only embracing Jesus Christ and traditional Orthodoxy will save it.
Though I wholly agree that preserving ones culture is very important, Ethnophylatism is not. Let’s not forget that Hellenic culture IS Orthodoxy. One is Orthodox first and foremost, then one is Greek (or Serbian, American, etc).
I’m not sure how things are in D.C but here in the Southeast U.S. GOA parishes are jam packed on Sunday’s (including my own), with Greeks, but, also with increasingly more non-Greeks. Why? Not because Hellenism is being preached for the homily but because Jesus Christ and the Truth of Orthodoxy is being preached. People are seeking it out.
To implement more Hellenism, more Greek language, more focus on Greece/Greek, is just going to push all of these converts away. The Church is meant to preserve culture I agree, but, that is NOT it’s primary focus. It’s primary of focus is the salvation of souls (yes even non-Greek souls).
Placing a major focus of everything in this article in GOA parishes above Orthodoxy will be just as much of a death warrant for the GOA than Globalism will be.
The first and foremost role of the Church is to preach and teach the Gospel for the salvation of mankind. I also love my Greek heritage but it is secondary to my love for the Orthodox faith.
In every other country the Church uses the local language. On Pentecost by the power of the Holy Spirit everyone heard the word of God in their own language.
Greek language is important and should be preserved at some level. But not at the expense of losing God’s command to go forth and make disciples of ALL nations. He did not say we must do it in Greek. We will lose our children from the faith if we fetishize the Greek language.
Michael, excellent response. The first task is the Word Of God. But regarding Greek language and culture we cannot forget that our communities in the Diaspora were established by our parents and grandparents and so we have more than a few reason to preserve the heritage. I wanted to remind everyone that this is being done in one great way outside the Church, with or without the cooperation of the Church and its parishes. How? with the establishment in the last 30m years of a few successful Charter schools: Hellenic Classical Charter in Brooklyn and Staten Island, Socrates School in North Carolina, Archimedean Schools in Miami and recently Hellenic Charter in Pittsburgh. In most of these schools the overwhelming majority of students are not Greek and this shows the continuing radiation of our culture. But in Church, because the language of the New Testament is Greek the task is different and the language has to be preserved as our “Ark” of Orthodoxy. Needless to repeat here that knowledge of ancient Greek has been proven to be beneficial in all kinds of intellectual functions.
Nick I can’t disagree with what you say and we agree on much. It is all about balance and balance changes. I am glad that while my grandparents were alive the services were almost all Greek. They and others built our Churches with their nickels and dimes. They taught us to love God, the Church and our heritage. They helped me get through 8 years of Greek school after regular school when the others boys were playing sports. I am grateful for every bit of that. I hope some measure of that is always retained and the Gospel should always be read in Greek and English, as well as the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer.
Sadly the era I grew up in is long gone. I went to Greek school to converse with my grandparents first and foremost. The school no longer exists.
I agree we should fight to preserve our heritage but not at the expense of the faith of the next generation.
The GOA Church we left was very Greek, almost no English used. When we first started going to OCA the young ones in our house said we never knew these hymns were so beautiful. They now know them and sing along in Church. It is simply not the same reading transliterations in a service book.
While trying not to deprive our children of their beautiful Greekness, we must be sure we do not deprive them of the full richness and beauty of Orthodoxy, which I believe they could not appreciate in its fullness in another language, even the ancient and sacred Greek language.
All good point Michael… There should be a balance. There are ways to make our children appreciate this language in view of the examples i referred to. It takes an effort.
Petros, I agree with most of your post but why do state that the church is meant to preserve culture? Never have I read or heard of a biblical passage or statement from a saint that the function of the church is to preserve culture. The church is the Body of Christ with the function of preaching and living the gospel of salvation and new life in Jesus Christ.
If Mr West is correct the GOA would not be in a state of terminal decline.
Alex, Greek Orthodox Churches need to embrace Jesus Christ, he is the foundation of the church.
I’ll take Traditional Orthodoxy as a “first choice” right now, too, because that’s “low-hanging fruit” to be honest, and we have been observing abominable teachings and actions by clergy and hierarchy for years now, which has been antithetical to our Church Fathers…
However, at the same time we have to remember that misinterpretations of Scripture are the root cause for most heresies out there, including the Filioque, which started as a misunderstanding of the Latin text…This means you can’t get around the basic unsolvable equation of NOT learning the original Greek and FULLY understanding the Original Text.
It is within this framework of “Greek education” that GOARCH should increase its efforts, to avoid the phenomenon of “luke warm” converts and “poorly catechized Greek descendants”, whose increased numbers will inevitably (sometime in the future) produce a Church congregation that fails to understand the differences between Orthodoxy and Protestantism (because they read Protestant / Vatican mistranslations and interpretations, as we have repeatedly seen examples provided by some commentators in this forum over time…)…that’s where we are heading, unfortunately…The only defense against this outcome at the individual level is to obtain the ability to read and understand the original text, but at a minimum, anyone teaching Sunday School (and of course clergy), need to be able to explain things without quoting Protestant / Vatican translations and misinterpretations.
Markos , you establish knowledge of Greek as a requirement for teaching Sunday school. If that were the case, we would have no teachers. Half ot the SS teachers in my parish are converts who know no Greek. The teachers who are Greek know little or no Greek. I guess in your judgement we are a luke warm parish.
Additionally, I am an advocate of traditional Orthodoxy but my definition and understanding is very different from yours.
JK,
I wrote “to avoid the phenomenon lukewarm converts”…I didn’t write that ALL converts are lukewarm by default, or that it is “unavoidable” to have solid Orthodox converts. As a matter of fact, I know someone who converted at the age of 20 who is a solid Orthodox bishop today. Until I meet and observe the people you are talking about, I obviously can’t formulate any opinion on them.
Distorting someone’s words and intentionally misquoting them is a violation of the commandment of “thou shalt not lie”…not a good spiritual habit, really. This isn’t the first time you’ve done this. It is understandable that you don’t like some opinions that are expressed in this forum, but that’s still not a good reason to behave like this, nor does it constitute “true debate” when you employ such tactics.
In my opinion, considering the moral state of the Archdiocese here in America and its close ties to the State Department, it is better to remove it from representing Greek interests. The Greek parishes should join the other Orthodox in forming an autocephalous Church in America. The Greek Archdiocese has failed in its spiritual mission in America and has served to betray the interests of Greece.
The Churches of Greece and Cyprus are in captivity. Look at the state dept influence on those synods decisions to recognize the pseudo Church in Ukraine.
The Greek Archdiocese tolerates pro lgbt
Positions from Greek Americans. Its influence should be curtailed, not expanded.
America needs a united local Church fully autocephalous to evangelize America and proclaim the gospel against the barbaric and Neo pagan lgbt ideology. Certainly, the Church should speak in Cyprus, Northern Epirus, Hagia Sophia but its full time task is to fulfill the great commission.
Better to work to expel the American influence over the Churches of Greece and Cyprus. Greece has ten million faithful and is the real voice of Greek Orthodoxy, not the Archdiocese with its heretical and spiritually illiterate Archbishop.
All the Greek orthodox churches of North America were built by the Greek immigrants who wanted to keep their Greek identity and their Greek language.
Then GOARCH was created in 1921 and coincidentally(?) AHEPA was created in 1922! The constitution of AHEPA says that the purpose of the organization is to assimilate the Greek immigrants in the American society. Not to preserve their Greek identity and language, but to assimilate them… And it looks like that AHEPA, who dominates the parish councils, is doing a great job dehellenizing our churches! At the same time of course they suck the money of the faithful parishioners and transfer them to their lodges…
A characteristic example of the dehellenization that AHEPA applies is the thousands Greek orphans that the organization sold to Jewish families in the US during the 50s and the 60s, depriving them for ever of their Greek identity and language…
Nowadays, gradually they close the existing Greek schools or they degrade them… They use less and less Greek in the liturgy and apply the heresies of ecumenism. And finally they don’t care if Greeks are fleeing or pushed out from their own churches, they say that Christianity is universal!
Well, while Christianity is universal, GOARCH was created by Greeks for the Greeks! If you want to make it universal, first of all that must be decided by a majority and then you have to remove the Greek from the name of GOARCH. Till then you have to do the liturgy also in Greek and according to GOARCH regulations have a Greek School in every parish!
My parish doesn’t have an AHEPA. A Christian church by its very nature must be for all people. A church by Greeks and for Greeks is no church but rather a Greek club .
From what you say I understand you didn’t read my comment. If you are an immigrant in a foreign country you go to a church that speaks your language! It is not a matter of a Greek club, it is a matter of preserving your identity and your language as a nation. And yes, these churches were built by Greek immigrants for themselves, as immigrants of other nations did also for themselves. That’s why every church has a name, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Ethiopian etc. It is the masons ecumenists that don’t want nations to exist anymore. And try to unite all churches and all religions. Well, it is not going to happen. We are not going to abandon our identity and our language.
The language is already lost. Few people in the GOA know and understand Greek. Besides, the purpose of a church is not to preserve an identity but rather to share and live the Gospel of salvation and new life in Jesus Christ. Again, what you promote is a Greek club. Have you ever read the new testament,?
And because you lost your Greek identity and language, we have to lose ours too? That is disturbing! Our ancestors built these churches to connect us with Greece. Not to be used by masons and ecumenists for their globalistic plans. Let’s all involve in the parishes elections and kick out all the AHEPA leaches that dehellenize our churches and steal our money!
Again, you have absolutely no understanding of the purpose of the church. It is your thinking, and those think like you, that are contributing to the demise of the church. Again, I ask, have you read the New Testament and do you believe in Jesus Christ?
JK,
This is not the level of exchange that helps anyone here. The biggest cause of GOA’s demise is the perceived lack of adherence to basic Orthodox Faith premises – especially during the pandemic. In general the acceptance of homosexuality and the blessing of LGBTQ ministries, etc. This is why lots of Greeks turn elsewhere and particularly to monasteries. And to various monks from Athos or other Holy Men who come here and preach the Word of God as the Orthodox Fathers had proclaimed it. Why do you think the movie about Saint Nektarios had such a huge appeal? People yearn for a return to the basics of our Faith.
Having said that, no one argues that the use of English is essential. If it was not, Helleniscope would be published exclusively in Greek. We have this debate since the days of AB Iakovos. Most who opposed him then they have now admitted they were wrong in opposing the expansion of English in Churches.
But those involved in the hierarchy of the Church, (priests and Hierarchs) you better believe we have a demand for them to know Greek well in order to be able to interpret the Bible from the original. We pay them well, don;t you tjhink? Most make an income of salary, benefits and “tips in cash” well over $200,000 a year. We have to expect from them to be well educated to fullfil their role. As for the rest of the faithful learning Greek I will refer all of you again to the rise of Hellenic Classical Charter Schools. It proves the demand for solid classical education is returning not only here but also in europe.
In the 1950s and 1960s and even the 1970s we all had to take ancient Greek and Latin, not only in Greece but in countries like France and England. In the 1980s and after this was not required anymore – and you can see the results in the quality of leadership in Europe: they are uneducated trash, and this is why they are losing any comparison to Russia.
I hope I helped all of you refocus.
The most basic and foundational tenet of Orthodoxy is faith in Jesus Christ. One can be hospitable but if there is not faith in Christ one is not a Christian.
JK, abstract generalities like the ones you said, do not facilitate discussion of issues. They are bubbles of fresh air. If you think these bubbles of fresh air help you then go ahead…
The notion that converts who want to hear English should just “go to another Orthodox Church” – the OCA being specifically mentioned – ignores one not-really-minor factor: what if there ARE no other Orthodox churches in the area?! Where I live, the Greeks have the entire area sewn up in a 50-mile radius, and travelling more than 30 miles is a real hardship for elderly people. I have to agree with those who say that the emphasis of the Greek Orthodox Church should be the same as any other Orthodox church, i.e., the teaching of Christ’s Gospel, in whatever language. Although I appreciate the role churches play in bridging the gap for immigrants between the old way of life and a new and frightening one, it is an indisputable fact that over time, the third and fourth generations are absorbed into the host-country culture, and that’s the point when ethnic churches begin to drain membership. If you’re not open to receiving converts who wish to worship in their own language, your community is going to die.
There is an even more serious and frightening consideration. Three miles away from me is an Anglican parish, former Episcopalians who were disturbed by the direction that church was taking and decided to pursue more traditional forms of worship (including an all-male priesthood). I have spoken with some of these people, and was grieved at how many of them gave serious consideration to becoming Orthodox – and every single one of them was turned away by the ethnic emphasis of the Greek Orthodox Church. Do you really want to have to answer to God for the souls of those who were turned away because they weren’t “Greek enough”?
Bravo Meg!
There are plenty of solutions available to address everyone’s concerns. The willingness is lacking on the part of GOARCH, to deal with it, because at the center of GOARCH’s equation is the “mighty dollar”…that’s another analysis for another day, but other jurisdictions in N. America have multiple ordained clergy at each parish, because they follow the model that worked for centuries, including in Greece, where “salary” was not going to be a “restrictive constraint” on having sufficient clergy. The equation “parish priest = Theology degree” is not true in Orthodox Tradition, but they’ve made it a “prerequisite” on this side of the Atlantic, and they are reaping the “rewards” of this terrible decision now… There has not been willingness to ordain “able men” who happen to have lay jobs, who could at least perform services (yes, even in English). Then, they can do multiple services per week, to satisfy a variety of needs of each parish…Anyway…it’s a painful discussion for another day…
The Greeks we are known for our hospitality and we never turn anyone down. In fact most of the liturgy is in English! But if you visit or attend a Greek Orthodox Church, you must have a lot of nerves to expect or demand the Greek to be completely eliminated from the liturgy! Don’t exploit our hospitality…
Nick, my statement above is not an abstract generality, it is an absolute truth. I think even your friend Markos would after. Additionally, as I have stated previously, three of the main reasons why people hate left the church are:the set ices are to long, the people aren’t friendly and to much Greek. This information comes from a survey of people who have left the church.
I am hoping you don’t mean that those who speak Greek or emphasise Greek lack faith in Christ. The issue on debate is how and what kind of Greek language use or Greek education is appropriate. There always is a happy medium that combines the great heritage of a New Testament written originally in Greek with the need to communicate Christ’s message in English. No other Christian nation had to deal with such an issue: We truly have a special role in the development of Christianity and we should cherish it. Without three centuries of Hellenistic cosmopolitanism following the death of Alexander the Great, without Plato and Socrates, without the Stoic philosophy, there would be no Saint Paul declaring “there is no Jew and Gentile, man or woman, etc” – the most central message of Christianity. We cannot throw this heritage down the drain. We have to find ways to preserve it.
Further, we can build on this peaceful cosmopolitanism as a safe haven for the Westetn Civilization to survive after ten centuries of violent and barbaric Crusades, Colonialism and Imperialism. It was the West that removed itself from Christian principles and not Hellenism. Right before the Crusades started (1050 AD) in one decade (970-980 AD) two Byzantine princesses, Theophano and Anna, managed through marriage to civilize the two greatest nations of Europe: the Germans and the Russians. They achieved it using peaceful means and mostly Christianity. Do you realize the magnitude of such heritage and its significance for today’s monumental failure of the so-called “judeochristian” (read Zionist/supremacist/hegemonic West?
We don’t just have a dead heritage displayed in a museum. We have the only viable way, our peaceful cosmopolitanism, to re-baptize the West and the whole world in its real classical roots.
Where is that survey JK? Who took these “exit interviews”, what was the sample size and sub-categorization of the surveyed population, what were the actual questions, and where are the actual itemized results? In this world, we often encounter “survey results”, and once in a while “actual” survey results, so I reserve skepticism until the details are examined closely.
And most importantly…Where are these folks actually going after they “leave”? If this specific question is missing from the survey, then the survey is totally incomplete and subject to misguided conclusions. Specificity is the antidote to “generalization”.
If ALL these folks are proven to be leaving for OCA or Antiochian parishes, where there is “local English competition” available, there are easy ways to solve for that equation, and it would have been solved years ago. In fact, experimentation along these lines has existed in several GOARCH for several decades now, and certain parishes that had 2 priests, have been conducting 2 Sunday liturgies, one in all English, and one in “more Greek”…I have seen such parishes first hand in my travels, but removing that “excuse” you mention didn’t actually solve the “bleeding”, did it? And that’s not what the “surveys” are actually saying, is it? In fact, many of these people you are referring to as “citing these excuses” are leaving Orthodoxy, period. That’s a totally different equation to solve, and has nothing to do with “Greek” or “English”.
The “length of services” is a pathetic excuse too, to be honest, because most Sunday Liturgies today (in either language) rarely exceed 90 minutes, including the sermon, and that includes OCA and Antiochian “all English” options, too. The original Liturgies have already undergone significant “truncations” several times over the last 1700 years, in order to “accommodate” the “weary faithful”, and there is really not much more available to “cut”. As a result, any such visions of a customized “Drive-through” Salvation option is actually a manifestation of an underlying protestant mindset, which believes “the individual is already saved”, and no longer needs to “toil” or “endure till the end” for Salvation (Matt 24:13). Orthodox services are irrelevant and unnecessary in the Protestant point of view. That’s the REAL equation to solve for.
And one of the biggest root causes of the symptoms begin with a “lack of authenticity” when comparing our clergy & hierarchy today with clergy & hierarchy of times past (this includes phenomena of tyrannical bishops that despise “conservative priests” and force them to follow and preach “non-traditional paths”, or else face suspension, etc…)…the other root cause is the abominable focus on “money” and “revenue-generation” that the “parish collection agencies” of GOARCH exhibit, which is not Christ-like (including the “selling of Sacraments” via the imposed extortion-like policy of “you must pay to be a “member” before we offer you the Mysteries of the Church”). These aggressive collection practices are anti-traditional (violate the idea that “only God should know what offerings you give as an individual, and not a central parish/GOARCH database), anti-canonical, and spiritually “improper” (When did Christ or the Apostles, or the Church Fathers ask for “proof of paid membership” in exchange for baptisms, weddings, or funeral services? And yet, officially on the books, GOARCH several years ago officially approved at the highest levels that being in “spiritual good standing” includes evidence of “paying up”).
If the two above problems are addressed as a first necessary step towards a return to authenticity, the “spiritual bleeding” will be reduced significantly, and then we can revisit the next round of “surveys”.
Marcos, this was a survey at a local parish. Though it was not a professional surgery, I believe it gives a snapshot of some concerns. Apparently, you choose to dismiss the information which is your choice .
The original liturgy of St John Chrysostom is significantly shorter than what is done today. Several accretions have been made lengthening the service and the repetition of parts of the service also add to the length of the liturgy.
I also believe there is too much of an emphasis on fundraising in the GOA. If we were faith stewards there would be no need for fundraising events like festivals. A church should not be in the restaurant business. Unfortunately, most GOA parishes are addicted to festivals.
Nick, I do not suggest that those who speak Greek do not have faith in Christ. What I affirm is that it is heresy to place the greek language and Hellenism above Christ. Additionally, many other nations dealt with the same issue:Serbia, Russia, Romania and Syria to name few. Rebaptism of the West can only occur through a radical Christian revolution not a return to classical Greece. Only Christ can save the West , including greece.
As you know horrendous crimes against humanity have been committed in the name of Christ – the worst of them during Inquisition. There is something to be said about revisiting the roots of Christianity- which undoubtedly lie in classical and stoic Hellenic philosophy.
Nick, you consistently dismiss the semitic roots of Christianity. Besides, the foundation of Christianity is a person, Jesus Christ, not a philosophy.
jk, I repeat what I have said again and again: Without classical and stoic philosophy, the foundation of Jesus and St. Paul’s teachings would not be there: The “Hellenized Jews” just 50-60 years after the death of Alexander the Great, translated the Old Testament in Greek in Alexandria. These Hellenized Jews were the “Septuagint”. Soon we will expand on this significant historical issues to clarify and bring light to the whole process. In these times not even Jews spoke Hebrew enough to understand their “Book”. Greek was the English of today – with Aramaic being the second language in the Middle East. Which once again, shows you the significance of Greek language in understanding the scripture.
Are you saying that Gods plan in the person of Jesus Christ is dependent on greek philosophy?
Are you saying that three centuries of ecumenical Hellenism that used Greek language and philosophy as its foundation were not part of God’s plan?
Well said Nick. While I don’t believe Greek is not necessary for our salvation (our dear Lord told Martha that just one thing is necessary), the Hellenistic world provided the perfect crucible for the development of the Byzantine world which has enriched us so greatly. It’s value is beyond description and part of what we call Holy Tradition. It was part of the Divine Plan.
I believe we need an autocephalous Church here in America. This means compromising on matters that are not dogma. We need to witness the faith. Only Christ can save America from the moral collapse that is happening.
In Ukraine, the legitimate Church has been outlawed. Turkey threatens Greece. An American Church United can contribute to America and work to support all the mother Churches if it is strong and united.
First and foremost, unity in the faith. Ethnicity for all jurisdictions has to come second. I love Greece and Cyprus. But here in America the Church has to establish itself and put its primary effort into evangelizing America. The Church of Constantinople Church of1,000 years ago converted the Slavs and Russia. That is what the American Church should be doing.
The Greek Archdiocesr had paid lip service to Hellenism while cooperating with the State Separtment against Russia and undermining the Church of Greece. Look at the Archbishop’s activities including the gay baptism in Greece! Anybody think the status quo
Regarding the Archdiocese here and Hellenism is working out?
The Greek and other parishes here in America should form an American Church. Greek should be taught in the seminaries and parishes who want it can choose to use Greek old Church Slavonic. Etc
Unless endemic spiritual corruption and phenomena of clergy not being aligned with the Church Fathers are eliminated first, autocephaly would result in a worse condition than we have today…Imagine what Elpidophoros would be capable of doing with no restraints and no local Synod to answer to (that was one of the proposed visions for a revised charter…have one head, and reduce all other bishops to “auxillary” with no real voting powers)…Autocephaly works only when the hierarchy and clergy are actually committed to following Traditional Orthodox values.
Marcos, please read John 17. Clearly, Jesus prays for unity among His followers, the Church. Unity is Gods will and the church should exist in solidarity with Gods will. Additionally, it is non-canonical to have multiple bishops in the same area. The church will never be perfect but The will of God is perfect.
My suspicion is that you don’t want Orthodox unity for another reason
JK,
The path to Orthodox Unity begins when those calling themselves “educated Orthodox” stop believing that they are “Preacher-Man”, and step down from their “high Chariot” (Acts 8:30):
“…Προσδραμὼν δὲ ὁ Φίλιππος ἤκουσεν αὐτοῦ ἀναγινώσκοντος τὸν προφήτην Ἠσαΐαν, καὶ εἴπεν, Ἆρά γε γινώσκεις ἃ ἀναγινώσκεις;
So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” – Acts 8:30
And sadly, you will never be able to answer that question with a definitive “YES”, if you fully rely on imperfect or even incorrect English translations of Scripture as your personal theological compass.
Even the Ethiopian on the Chariot (in Acts 8:30) who was reading the original text required Catechism…in fact, this Ethiopian may well be considered the “original Protestant”, because he relied on his own individual intellectual abilities to interpret Scripture. Similarly, how many times did Christ himself chastise the “educated” Pharisees for their inability to understand Scripture? That’s why we have the Church Fathers to explain to us what Scripture really means, instead of relying on our own interpretations…
You still haven’t answered my earlier question as to why the King James version set the “English Standard” by interpreting the same Greek term “μενουν γε” as both “rather” and “indeed”, depending on whether or not the term “indeed” conflicted with their pre-conceived Protestant dogma surrounding the Theotokos…sadly, there are multiple other similar “English traps” like this lurking in translations that you loyally rely upon…
Fortunately, there are plenty of “Byzantine era Bible Studies” available to assist us with understanding Scripture…
Ultimately, it is improper mindset that leads to improper interpretations…that’s the root cause of all schism and heresy, and not “language” per se. But understanding the limitations of translation, acknowledging them when a controversy arises, and looking at the Church Fathers who had “correct interpretations” of the original text is the right “mindset”. Unfortunately, the “Latter-Day Ethiopians” in the Vatican didn’t follow this mindset with the Filioque (and other dogmas), and neither did Martin Luther, and a plethora of others, resulting in the mess we observe today.
Markos, you are probably correct about the mis- translation you quote. However, even with faulty translations one can understand the primary message of the scriptures. As Chrysostom states not knowing the scriptures is the cause of all evil. The cause of heresy is not faulty translations but faulty hearts.
I noticed that some commentators that call themselves “Greek Americans” think that is not necessary that our children should learn Greek!
I wonder if when you are entering a Masonic lodge or AHEPA you have to denounce your ethnic background? Do you understand how ridiculous is that? There is no real reason for any immigrants to cut the ties with their motherland!
Do you want your children to visit Greece as American tourists? And use Google translate to communicate? I repeat again: There is no real reason for any immigrants to cut the ties with their motherland! And certainly your globalistic agenda is not a serious reason…
Mr PG, I am not a Mason nor a member of Ahepa. I lament the fact that my children do not know Greek but at a young age we chose to encourage our children to pursue athletics rather than Greek school and 2 of my sons received athletic scholarships at universities. I believe we made the correct decision. Nevertheless, my primary goal is for them to know Christ. I continue to pray for them .
Jk,
You decided your kids not to learn Greek. The problem is that we didn’t. We want our kids to learn Greek and there are no schools for them to learn! There are only 3-4 real Greek schools in all the country! The Greek government doesn’t care, GOARCH doesn’t care, AHEPA doesn’t care, but that is not a surprise…
And the last years, because of the situation in Greece, more Greeks keep coming here and they cannot find a Greek School for their kids. Either you have to live near these few schools that exist, or have a lot of money to spend in private lessons. The Greek lessons at church are not adequate to fill the vacuum and these churches that have lessons get less and less…
Do you think is normal that the Greek government, GOARCH and the various organisations of Omogenia don’t care if our kids will learn Greek? I think it is very suspicious… It is their role, their job to keep the ties between the motherland and Omogenia. And the most important tie is the language!
And not only they don’t do anything to keep it alive, but they try to close the existing Greek schools and eliminate or degrade the Greek lessons at church…
I bet next thing you will say is that I am a conspiracy theorist…
You need not reply any Further to Jk or any other of the “Made in America” Greeks Americans “Sons of Liberty” , and neither do I ! Everything you have written is honorable, honest, Factual, and irrefutable I should know as a 4th Generation Greek Orthodox American , and former Ahepa chapter President!
Thank you from a 4th generation Greek Orthodox Christian of America ..whose Great Grandparents came thru New Orleans with little or no money , but what they brought was the foundation of values manifested in the Original Church of Christ… the Greek Orthodox Church! And yes you are right, they built their churches to serve the needs of the Greek Speaking population of America.. Period! But in the end… and well before free Mason converts of the Ahepa came along , these Churches were sanctuaries to bring together all Greek families to worship in the manner that only the “Original Church of Christ could possibly do.. read from a bible created and written in Greek, and brought together families who shared common values and beliefs, celebrated together festive events , holidays, the marriages of the Greek Orthodox children, baptisms of their babies, and mourned the loss of loved ones! And in the end , they laughed , they cried they worshiped in Greek ..in their Greek Orthodox Church! Most importantly, if it was not for the chartered “Greek” Church.. none of us would know what happiness really is. because, ” Money, Security and Status” important to the dominant religious Protestant order , was never important to Greek Orthodox Christian immigrants in America, because they never had it ! What was important to them was sharing their lives with family and friends with common values manifested for Centuries in their Greek Orthodox Church… the Original Church of Christ… and caretakers of the holiest sites of Christianity !
Of course, the Greek Orthodox Church was built for Greeks..it is a private religious entity that can do whatever it wants…Period! Additionally, they are a legitimate and certified registered religious order of the United States , and assigned Non-Profit Status ! Furthermore , all the Churches are approved Franchises of the Greek Orthodox faith and religion, and like all Franchises , no different than Dunkin Donuts or Starbuck…must fully comply with all the operating protocals established by the Original Church of Christ ..the Greek Orthodox Church ! Failure to operates as established , subjects all Greek Orthodox Churches to termination of their franchise name and association with Greek Orthodoxy! So JK….not having Greek being a big part or representative part of the Services of the Greek Orthodox Churches or even a “Greek School” is grounds for suspension as a certified member of the Greek Orthodox Church! In other words, they no longer can use the historic Brand name of our church to sell their ministry to the Greek Community ! They call this a “Quality Control ” offense! Dunkin Donut franchises…must deliver a product which meets the expectations and needs of its customer base built over decades ! Consequently , the market for the Greek Orthodox Church has always been the Greek Christian Community and anybody who wishes to partake and spiritually experience all the elements of the Original Church of Christ as it was practiced by the first Christians!
Jk and the rest of the “Sons of liberty of “Made in America” Greek Americans who wish to suppress “Greek ” in our churches , and promote “English” of the Protestant American “Empire of lies” to understand the True meaning of Christ,s commandment to “Love Thy Neighbor”. have in fact in English sent their flock to the halls of Congress and Government to “Kill their Neighbors” in the name of the Protestant Christian Church!
Thank God for my Great Grandfather and family ..who built those Greek Speaking Churches, which have served my family for 4 generations , which I can proudly say… I was not a “Made in America” Greek American, but a “Made in Greece” Greek America!
JK and others… the problem is not the Greek Orthodox Church or ‘Greek”, the problem is , you have simply been in the wrong church , where “Quality Matters, Not Quantity!
Thank you.. PG or whatever JK calls you…because our church has always embraced Hellenism and Christianity, and Greek Family Traditional values, now fraudulently questioned in the best interests of the “Made in America “Sons of Liberty” of Greek Americans ! Axios PG.
NR…the Greek School in our city has a long history but enrollment is going down each year. My guess is that it will continue to dwindle even though the Church pays most of the expenses. From what i see in my city, even the Greeks are not supporting Greek school. The good news is there are more and more Pan-Orthodox Christian Classical Schools popping up all over the country. I suggest that people learn about this movement, visit, and support these schools. Many of these schools teach both classical Greek and Latin. We need to give our Orthodox families educational options and create schools that focus on both virtue AND academics.
Mikey, you can compare the church to Starbucks and call it a franchise, I call it the Body of Christ. God be with! Jesus is Lord .
JK…take your Bible Toting rants to the Ukraine and Washington .. and tell them that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ , not an Affiliate or Franchise of the Russia Orthodox Church of Moscow and Patriarch Krill serving Russian Speaking Ukrainian Orthodox Faithfull and undermining the democracy and government of the Ukraine and arresting Russian Speaking Orthodox Christian Ukrainians Clergy, and Monks , and banning the Ukrainian Orthodox Church from serving Christ our lord!
It must be very painful ..to find out .. that eliminating Greek from the Greek Orthodox Church , or not fulfilling specification of the Greek Orthodox Church charter of America established by my Great Grandparents and other immigrants of Greece , like providing a Greek School could subject your church to stripping of it as a Greek Orthodox Church label to the Greek community, and not a practicing member of the Original Church of Christ and its historical religious principle and mandates! Additionally, certified Greek Clergy will no longer be provided to your church, etc . etc by the archdiocese and basically excommunicated as an existing religious order ! That is what happens to churches who like Starbuck owners who fail to deliver what they promise to provide to their customers ..which devalues the rest of the Franchise Church boards in other parts of America!
AS I said JK.. your problem is …that you are clearly in the wrong church , if you are not satisfied with what the Greek Orthodox Church offers ! There are plenty of English Speaking Evangelical and Protestant reform church in America ..who exclusively speak English , and don’t have Greek Schools!
I am very pleased with my local Greek Orthodox parish.
Michael, I am impressed that as a 4th generation Greek american you and your family have maintained knowledge of the greek language and can understand the liturgy in greek. You are an anomaly.
Hey Jk… if your impressed with me , then you’ll really be impressed with my 5th generation children, who not only understand the liturgy of the Greek Orthodox Church and its religious Christian Doctrines and family values , but attended a very highly acclaimed Jesuit run Catholic High School in which mandatory graduation courses in Religious study and education were required by the Catholic High School where this Greek Orthodox Christian product of his Great. Great Grandfather immigrant church , would go on to ring up ..a 4.0 pt score , the highest recorded Religious study and Education score in the History of this Jesuit Catholic High School, and then this Greek Orthodox Cadet , would record the top Academic graduation scores , and ranked among the best Baseball players in his State , leading to 15 Division One University Scholarships, and to top it off.. he was presented with a scholarship from the Public Relation program of Ahepa for his achievements and appropriately in his “Greek Speaking Greek Orthodox Church of his Great ,Great Grandfather and immigrant Greeks of Sparta , Greece! And JK ..that just my Son!
Not only has my 5th generation “made in Greece” Greek Orthodox Church American understand our Christian Religion , but he also know what it take to be the best at it..and that is what you are missing…. and what the Greek immigrants knew was important for their Happiness…supporting a church who brought Greek families together to worship , dance, laugh , Cry and share their lives together and taught us the most important words in Greek from Grandparents and our churches.. ” Come on Over, Everybody is Coming” and the beginning of the happiest moments of our lives! JK… of course , you are valid in questioning the use of Greek in a dominant English Speaking country, no less valid for English being used in a dominant Greek country of Greece , however, the Greek Orthodox Church was established to serve the Greek community of America ..Period ! What don’t you understand about that?
Michael One: I probably agree with you on as many or more issues than I do with JK. But the unkind and uncharitable way that you speak to your brothers on this site is disturbing. I am third generation, not fourth like you. And my grandparents were also founders of our Greek Church. These beautiful hard working villagers from Greece with no education together with many others built the foundation of our Church in America.
They built a support system which they needed to thrive and thrive they did. They were not deliberately trying to ensure the preservation of Greek culture and language. They were trying to survive. The cultural benefits were a wonderful side effect if that. I fully support efforts to continue that and I always will.
But please stop equating our sacred Orthodox Church with Hellenism and Greekness. The Great Commission from our Lord is to baptize all nations. We disobey our Lord’s command when we fail to welcome those in the door who may not know Greek and may not want to know Greek, but want to find Christ in the richness of the Orthodox tradition.
Greek is great and we should treasure it and live it and promote. But we should never let it become a stumbling block to fully bringing in and catechizing those who thirst for Orthodoxy but not for Greekness.
Otherwise we become the Greek tribe at prayer and not the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church our Lord calls us to be.
I know you will probably insult me too now. That is okay. I continue to pray for you and everyone of my brothers on this site that God will give us the grace to always speak to one another in charity and patience and with love and respect even when we disagree.
Michael, great post we are in agreement.
I think you specifically and others twist the reality in order to desperately find a single argument to support your hidden hatred about Greece, the Greek people and the Greek language. What you say never happened! Never somebody who visited a Greek Orthodox Church was told that couldn’t attend because they are not Greek! That’s a lie of huge proportions and only a person who is not actually Greek could invent it…
The Greeks we are known for our hospitality and we never turn anyone away. And most of the liturgy is in English! So, everybody is welcomed and many people that are not Greeks attend. And nobody ever complained about the parts of the liturgy that are also in Greek. You are trying to create a non existent problem. The real problem of GOARCH is the masons and AHEPA that try to enforce to our churches their globalistic agenda…
And since you and others like to mention the words of Christ to his disciples, he said go and teach my word to all the nations, he didn’t say go create secret societies, Masonic lodges, brotherhoods, fraternities and sororities… If you think you can fool our lord Jesus Christ by worshipping at the same time your Masonic God, you are fooling yourselves. Hell is nearest to all of you, more than you think…
I hate taken people to church who have told me they didn’t feel welcomed.
Jk
If it is true that you are orthodox and you are attending a Greek Orthodox Church, there is no way you haven’t noticed non Greeks attending with you. All these people who are not Greeks and attending regularly our churches feel welcomed and respect our hospitality. This “not welcomed” thing is manufactured, made up by the AHEPA parasites who want to dehellenize our Greek Orthodox churches and turn them to masonic clubs…
While JK and Michael ..can post their agreement with themselves , it is only fair that Helleniscope post my agreement with everything you have written and I have written! Importantly, as you said ..they have created or invented a threat or problem ” to make their enemies”.. Greeks, Russians ,Serbs, Ukrainians etc etc and the Orthodox Church… “the enemies of all Christians of America and the world! The common denominator of their enemies is that they are the foundation of orthodox Christian culture with Greek, Russian, Serb, etc identity at its core.
Michael ONE, I think this is enough. You made your points. The length of your responses and the repetition of your positions are the reason I cannot post them daily here.
I served on a GOA parish council and can confirm disregard often existed for people who don’t appear Greek or don’t speak Greek. In one instance, another council member dismissed following up with someone who signed our guest book because their last name wasn’t Greek. On another occasion, we were planning an event and multiple council members expressed desire that it be Greeks only invite. The worst was when emails sent to the church were being deleted immediately from people inquiring about conversion, attending service for the first time, etc. and the names always happened to be non Greek. Very sad to say this is a real issue and the energy fueling this behavior was felt by visitors.
I don’t think this is a true story… And there is no way to find out the truth, if you don’t mention the name of the church…
You are absolutely right again, and I should know .. I was a Parish Board Member at the Church of the Ascension in Fairview. N.J…for 15 years.. and Helleniscope let me remind you that this is the church you featured as the Greek Orthodox Church preserving the Traditional and Religious Values of the Greek Orthodox Church and foundation of orthodox Christian culture with Greek identity at its core. By the way what my Great Grandparents did in New Orleans , my Grandparents did in Fairview, New Jersey!
Helleniscope .. You have posted over 60 comments with over half of them blatant Fabrications and distortions which insult , demean and defame the legitimacy of the Greek Orthodox Church of America and faithful to serve the Greek Community ! To post Ahepa Free Mason posts who infiltrate all the Church boards where they are located and have a “Negative Influence” on the faithful followers, Board members and caretakers of our church ..is outrageous!
Helleniscope .. don’t lecture me on not posting allegedly “Repetitious Posts” which are true and supported factually, when you continue to repetitiously Anti- Greek Orthodox Church comment which distort the legitimacy of our church to serve the Greek Community! Yes , I do make my points , only because I provide support any claims I make ! For instance, you only posted half of my post to Pie and the readers , which made the point that “the Sons of liberty ” masquerading as Greeks and Orthodox Christians who are offended by the fact that our Greek Orthodox Churches were built preserving the Traditional and Religious Values of the Greek Orthodox Church and a foundation of orthodox Christian culture with Greek identity at its core.
And to make my point, .. I provided testimony which you did not include in my post ..which exposes the intentions of the “Sons of liberty” as being part of the Globalist Agenda to strip the “Greek Identity and any Cultural identity who are at the core of the foundation of the Greek Orthodox Church! So , please, correct my post which included testimony .. which really bring legitimacy to my points , unlike the “Allay is Great” rants of your anti Greek Orthodox posters..
“I was reading a document that was authored by George Soros over 10 years ago in which he talks specifically about this all-out war that would ultimately come against Russia because he said this ‘was the last nationalist state that rests on a foundation of orthodox Christian culture with Russian identity at its core. That has to be removed. (Soros) even goes so far as to talk about how useful it would be if it was east Europeans whose lives were expended in this process and not west Europeans who simply won’t take the casualties. This is not a minor matter. This is the kind of thinking that is so destructive and so evil, in my judgement, that that’s what we’re really dealing with in our own countries and I think Putin recognizes that.”
Colonel Douglas McGregor- U.S Army
Now you have made my point and corrected my post ! And certainly as Macgregor stated .. “Not a minor matter for Greeks!
MICHAEL ONE – your posts are repetitive and that’s why i only post 1 in 10. Keep it in mind and don’t waste your time.
I won’t throw the church under the bus, there are many good people there. Those responsible would never admit it anyway. However, it’s all 100% true and our churches suffer because of this toxic tribalism that often blinds our community.
“Niko”
I doubt that such church exists. And the reason is that instead of revealing the church that supposedly is not welcoming non Greeks, you multiply that single church and you make it “our churches”… It is obvious that you want to manufacture a problem that doesn’t exist…
Our Greek Orthodox churches are welcoming everybody, even non orthodox christians that want to convert. Most of the liturgy is in English, but there are some parts of the liturgy that are also in Greek. If people from other denominations think that having some parts of the liturgy in Greek is not welcoming behavior on behalf of us, unfortunately we cannot do anything about that. What can we do? Should we the Greeks cease to exist? Wouldn’t that be convenient for the “unity” of the ecumenical heretics?
PG- It’s obvious that you are deluded by your ethnic pride. If you know anything about Greek history you know the tribal tendencies of our people and to act like that doesn’t manifest itself in the church is laughable.
I say “our churches” because I have witnessed “othering” myself at several Greek Orthodox churches along the East coast. It was shocking to be on the inside of a council and see church leadership engaged in this ugly profiling. To deny there is a coldness toward “xenoi” makes the problem worse and it’s a real reason GOA adherents have decreased by +/- 20% over the last 10-15 years. Second, third, and fourth generation Greeks are especially turned off by this and it has pushed many out of the faith altogether.
“Niko”,
It’s obvious that you and your heretic friends try to reverse everyday reality!
Everybody knows that the Greeks are the ones fleeing our churches, not because the church councils are racists, but because they are not Greek enough anymore and they apply heretic innovations!
Only in your imagination the parish councils could be racists, since most of the churches are dominated by Masonic and ultra-globalistic AHEPA. So, you actually say that your AHEPA friends are racists, which you know is a huge lie!
I have also been in many Greek Orthodox churches in the East Coast and elsewhere and have never noticed any lack of hospitality. Many non Greeks and converts are attending these churches and I never heard anyone complaining. I understand that non Greeks would prefer the liturgy to be only in English, but what can we do? Should the Greeks cease to exist to satisfy them?
No one can deny Greeks are leaving because of the creepy GOA leadership. That doesn’t mean people aren’t also leaving/not joining because they don’t feel welcomed. My parish was a struggling one – no deep pockets or AHEPA in sight (this made the racism even more shocking as we desperately needed new parishioners).
PG, as I have mentioned multiple times, most Greeks do not understand the liturgy in Greek. Additionally, I mentioned that a survey in a local parish was made of families who have left the church and the factors mentioned were:the people are not friendly, the services are too long and the parish is too Greeky. Marcos, correctly pointed out the survey does not meet professional standards, but I believe it is an accurate snapshot .
JK, I beg to differ on this one. I have observed often old Greek ladies in Greece understanding fully the liturgy and the Bible. The “Biblical” Greek through its use by the Church was one of the many vehicles of survival of the Greek language almost intact the last 20 centuries – and a clear sign of our inheritance. There were many scholars that suggested that Greeks were eliminated by barbaric invaders and they are no more. What proved them wrong is the survival of the language mostly through the Church (and folk tradition and poetry secondarily).
Mr Stamatakis,
Since this article attracted so many commentators, I suggest you pin it at a more visible position of your website. So, that more shy AHEPA members can tell us the horrific stories of racism they experienced in the parish councils that they govern!
I think it is visible enough… I wouldn’t expect much sensitivity from AHEPA…
Well stated …. and Hellensicope you might want to post the repetitious truths, that the Greek Orthodox Church was established for the Greek Community with Greek Identity at its core …Period, as were other Orthodox Churches ..including the Russian Orthodox Church whose Russian Speaking Ukrainians are being banned from Ukraine and their Churches ! Your Greek American Free Mason “Sons of liberty of America and Israel” not Greeks of Greece and Cyprus who geniuinely do not understand .. the basic principles of “Incorporation” in America ! And legally .. all Greek Orthodox Churches with the Greek Identity at its core were incorporated by the Greek immigrants to serve the religious, Spiritual , Social, economic, educational and philanthropic needs of the Greek community! To this end, approved Affiliates emerged to the Churches… Greek Schools, PTO, and of course, my all time favorite the Philoptohos..you know “Love of the Poor Greek Community!
Hey JK , Nikos etc.etc… All Churches are incorporated in America .. and some are certified under “Not for Profit” enterprise! All of this is based on their operating principles of the Original Church of Christ” with , and how many times do I have to tell you ..with Greek identity at its core ! Who cares what you think, and your righteous indignation that they are not making Christians of alleged already “Protestant Christians of the nation of America, because there not trying to ..! Get over it…I am sure 130 years ago they didn’t believe when they opened their doors, that they would convert 130 million protestants to their Greek Church! On their worst days, the Greek Orthodox Church of America… is still the choice of worship of my 5th generation childrens! And that is enough for me!
Niko, I don’t think the majority of the people who leave the GOA leave because of “creepy leadership.” Most parishioners have little idea who their Bishop is and what he believes. Possibly they leave because they don’t like the priest. I mentioned the results of a local parish survey addressing, why people leave.
JK- I agree and don’t believe my comment suggested that. However, it’s undeniable that, among other things, financial scandals (St. Nicholas), theological perversion (Demacopoulos/Papanikolaou), subversive secular elites (Bousis family) and the heretical archbishop, all of which are pieces of GOA leadership, spread an insidious demoralization throughout churches that is a factor in parishioners walking away.
Niko, I agree, these are definitely issues of concern, but I don’t think the majority of the membership is aware of your stated issues . Most are concerned about the function of the local parish and not the national church. Reading this blog would make one think your stated concerns are central concerns nationwide but I don’t think they are. In my own parish your concerns are seldom mentioned.
Hey Helleniscope.. this is embarrassing to Helleniscope .. this has become a Circus of Hate mongers of the entire Greek Orthodox Church! How does the use of the Greek language and a church built with the Greek Identity at its core have to do with your complete coverage of the Scandalous activity of the Patriarch and Archdiocese of North America which Helleniscope methodically remind us of everyday ? Even Jk .. agrees ..no one care about what the Patriarch and his cabal do ! AS a matter of fact ..they don’t even know who he is and any of the other traitors the Original Church of Christ who violate the all the principle of the Greek Orthodox Church as chartered by the Greek immigrants! Ridiculous!