EDITOR’S NOTE (Nick Stamatakis). I would add that a permanent Russian demand for a peaceful solution in Ukraine would be the protection of the linguistic and religious rights of ALL Ukrainians. It is clear from very recent reports that Presidents Trump and Putin are now in close communication to work out the details of a peace proposal… Stay tuned…
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The people of Ukraine did not accept the OCU, the project failed, – Greek theologian
A Greek priest stated that the law banning the UOC is a statement of the failure of the “OCU” project.
Greek theologian and priest Anastasios Gotsopoulos, in an article published on the Greek website of the UOJ, “‘Ukrainian Autocephaly’ Has Failed,” stated that the Ukrainian people did not accept the OCU and the law banning the UOC actually confirms this.
“The inability of the autocephalous church structure to absorb the canonical Church led to the adoption of Law 8371/20.8.2024, which declares the canonical Ukrainian Church of the majority of the Orthodox Ukrainian people outlawed. What rage against the canonical Church! They thought that the people of God would accept their innovations and enter the new structure. They failed! They began cruel persecutions against believers. And they failed again! Now they are declaring the Church of Christ outlawed. And they fail again!” the theologian wrote.
He emphasized that since 2018, supporters of the OCU have been explaining people’s reluctance to join the Dumenkov structure by Russian influence. But the war has overturned their arguments.
“On the contrary, when there is a strong struggle against everything Russian, the transitions, despite violence and persecution, are minimal and constantly decreasing (in 2022 – 496, in 2023 – 471, in 2024 – 232),” the Greek priest emphasized.
He considers it “obvious” that “the project of “Ukrainian Autocephaly” was not accepted by the believing people, that is, it failed, because despite such pressure and persecution, millions of Orthodox Ukrainians remained faithful to the Church of their ancestors and did not want to enter the new autocephalous structure of Epiphany Dumenko.”
He also stated that Poroshenko, as well as all politicians and church figures who assured Patriarch Bartholomew that “all believers will run with joy to the new Church,” deceived him.
Previously, the UOJ wrote that even according to official figures from the UOC authorities, no more than 12% of UOC communities have left in 6 years.
I don’t buy the “Poroshenko deceived Bartholomew” comment…two puppets were doing what their puppet masters wanted them to….
Apart from that ridiculous law banning Ounoufrios (which will have to be “canceled”), the other interesting problems that will be a thorn in any armistice negotiations will be
a) what to do with the Kiev Caves,
b) what to do with the confiscated church buildings,
c) how to reconcile the existence of persecuted and imprisoned clergy and faithful
d) what Constantinople and anti-Moscow bishops from other Greek jurisdictions plan to do with their relationship with Moscow (& Ounoufry) after participating in this schismatic debacle…the “tomos” can’t work or even co-exist in a scenario where Epiphanios’s territory is reduced to a size smaller than a few apartment blocks in Kiev…To the West of Kiev, it’s mostly Uniate territory belonging to the Vatican, anyway…
The “cleanest” way out is to see a bunch of resignations within the Constantinople/Greece/Alexandria/Cyprus synods, such that a “reset button” can be pressed on inter-Orthodox relations, including the declaration of Bartholomew’s tomos as illegitimate (the easiest path for this might be based on any hard evidence emerging for the violation of the canon concerning Simony, given that the news media has published a lot of details about money being exchanged for the Ukrainian tomos to be granted…
https://ocl.org/whose-money-stoked-religious-strife-in-ukraine-and-who-tried-to-steal-it/ …
If the Russian negotiators have hard copies of the underlying evidence, it could end up being a “beard-shaving festival”, as they say in Greek villages…)
In the meantime, as Oliver Hardy would frequently say to Stan Laurel…”here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten me into”…
The solution to Patr. Bartolomew mess is a Pan-Orthodox council, and several bishops called for one. But Patr. Bartolomew has done nothing about it, he is too preoccupied with Nicaea 2025 meeting with the pope. Given that the pope has a lot of health problems this meeting may or may not happen.
Bartholomew is old and frail, too…
… and the 88 yr old pope is in the hospital as of today.
Yes, in the end…the true believers and righteous…always win!
Has America’s autocephaly, the OCA, also failed? It probably depends on who you ask.
The OCA’s autocephaly is largely derided as a failure by those outside of it. Even after 55 years of OCA autocephaly, ROCOR, to this day, refuses to consider joining. If even the original Russian mission in America hasn’t been united by this autocephaly, then perhaps the OCA is a failure.
However, the reason why the OCA’s autocephaly originally was sought out largely had to do with the Cold War between the U.S. and Russia. Autocephaly specifically helped to ensure freedom of religion for the OCA, and at a time when Moscow Patriarchal parishes in America were suspected KGB hotbeds. From the aspect of freedom of religion, the OCA’s autocephaly has shown itself to be a success. This is clearly evident today, as the OCA freely maintains communion with America’s Greek Archdiocese, while the Moscow Patriarchal parishes in America, including ROCOR, have been required to go into schism by breaking communion with America’s Greek bishops.
Hardly the same thing, Joseph!
No one created OCA through violence by stealing over 1500 canonical churches from the true orthodox by people that are clearly not orthodox because no orthodox acts like a tyrant, beating up bishops and clergy–like for example in the case of Metr. Teodosy, giving him and the believers concussions and causing them to be hospitalized with broken bones, injuries due to shooting at them in Church, retinal burns etc. A person that fears God does not act like this in the temple of God. You are looking once again at this through a dirty lens and see everything distorted.
Recently a Jerusalem bishop also called to stop the persecution. Even the pope criticized what’s happening over there. When will you see the truth? Nothing can be accomplished through violence, and I would rather die than sell my soul and join the defrocked priests and bishops of the fake church, OCU, that almost no one recognizes as canonical. The true orthodox follow the true canonical bishops and priests because they follow God in His True Church.
https://spzh.eu/en/news/84526-jerusalem-church-bishop-urges-ukrainian-authorities-to-stop-persecuting-uoc
Sandy, I’m not sure how much you know about this, but things used to be pretty darn ugly between ROCOR and the OCA. Sure, we’re talking about a different size scale of things than Ukraine, but yes, there were lawsuits over church properties. People were locked out of their own churches right here in the U.S., just like in Ukraine.
And here, another article
https://spzh.eu/en/news/84534-we-know-how-houses-burn-in-vendychany-ocu-threatens-uoc-priests-family
It is not the first threat, and many UOC churches were burned by the enemies of God. No doubt about it. One time I remember watching a UOC priest giving an interview to a European news station and his wife called him during the interview because the enemies of God burned his UOC church as he was giving the interview. These people are not orthodox. They are criminals.
Why are you defending the undefendable?
Sandy, no, I’m not defending hooligans. That’s criminal. UOC owned properties in Ukraine are currently targeted by criminal hooligans because of the UOC’s *perceived* affiliation with Russia. Of course Ukraine is also at war and under martial law.
Anywhere that we find war and martial law happening in the world, we can then expect that both civil and religious liberties will, at least to some extent, be taken away. It could even happen here in the U.S.
The Ukrainian military and police recognizes that properties that are transferred to the OCU (whether by legitimate or illegitimate means) are no longer under threat of hooliganism. That’s largely the reason why the Ukrainian government would rather have properties transferred to the OCU. It protects those properties from hooliganism and creates less headaches for an already overburdened military and police. During wartime and martial law, it goes without saying that justice is typically in short supply.
Come on, Joseph!
Take your pink glasses off and look for facts and truth. Most people in Ukraine will never join the fake OCU. It is a made up “church” that has “priests” and “bishops” that steal from the temples. Those are the true hooligans. Are you not afraid of God’s judgement? They even stole Metr. Teodosy’s clothing and crosses and when they realized that the crosses are not made of gold, they threw them on the ground. That’s what they think of the cross of Christ, they treat holy things like garbage. One OCU “priest” even said that the bible is trash. And they took the Metropolitan’s clothing and shared it among them like they did with Jesus’ clothing. Those are your “christians” from OCU, that are “protecting” the churches? And you are defending them? When are you going to recognize that OCU is not protecting the churches, but they are stealing them like a bunch of thieves in the night. Some of the holy temples of God are now used as movie theaters, coffee shops, cooking shows, and in many other unholy ways. And you call this “protection”, stealing the temples of God and defiling them. Give it some thought. Because you don’t make any sense.
https://spzh.eu/en/news/84518-almost-3-000-uoc-believers-in-storozhynets-oppose-transition-to-the-ocu
Please do not compare ROCOR/OCA situation with this and defend these crimes against Christ who is crucified again right now, in Ukraine. There is no comparison.
Also, Bartolomew is not condemning what is happening there to the minorities with OCU stealing the churches of the Romanian minorities, so don’t expect Patr. Daniel of Romania to be pleased and recognize the fake OCU church:
https://spzh.eu/en/news/84519-romanian-speaking-uoc-believers-we-are-facing-religious-repression
And if you still have your pink glasses on, here is an article from a theologian in Germany, maybe you will listen to what he has to say on how UOC is persecuted by OCU representatives even outside Ukraine:
https://spzh.eu/en/news/84529-german-theologian-ukrainian-authorities-are-fighting-the-uoc-even-abroad
If you don’t see that this is a war against the second largest Orthodox Church in the world (UOC), I think you should get new glasses because you don’t read the information the right way.
Sandy, I have not defended the OCU anywhere in this thread. Without a doubt, people within the OCU have done bad things, and God will judge them for it. My main point, rather, is that it’s unrealistic to have high expectations for justice and religious freedom during wartime and martial law.
The war is the main problem here, and it’s a war between Russia and Ukraine. The only reason Ukrainian hooligans attack the UOC is because of a *perceived* connection between the UOC and the Russian Church. It’s ultimately up to the UOC to counter public perception that they remain within the Moscow Patriarchate. Indeed, some effort has been made towards this, but apparently not enough.
Rather than focusing on this public perception problem, the UOC currently promotes the fact that they are being persecuted, while ignoring the obvious reason why they are being persecuted, that is the perception remains that the UOC is part of the Moscow Patriarchate.
Joseph,
“people within the OCU have done bad things” is an understatement–why minimize their crimes? I mean, people were seriously hurt and a few were killed. Murder is not “bad things”, it’s a crime. One UOC priest was killed in his church. His blood spilled on the floor of the temple of God, which as you know, should not be used for human sacrifice.
We have had wars before and churches were not closed and stolen for the most part except during communism. Those Ukrainians and the Romanian minorities know it all too well, it is not the first time the atheist Government steals the churches and persecute the canonical OC. It is not even the first time a bishop or patriarch is selling them out, like OCU and their clergy and bishops is doing today. Also, Yelenski, one of the people in Zelenski’s government is a communist so we should not be surprised he is a fervent persecuter in chief of UOC. The war has nothing to do with it. The war is used as an excuse as a pretense to destroy UOC and this project started before the war! The only reason Ukrainian hooligans attack the UOC is because they are paid very well and they decided to be on the wrong side of history, not because of a *perceived* connection between the UOC and the Russian Church–the whole world knows there isn’t one. Communist made up things and charges too and persecuted Christians. Their relatives, the Yelenskis of today, repeat what their parents and grandparents did and thought them–persecute the canonical UOC, even though the UOC is not in the Moscow Patriarchate, as the whole world knows it. That’s why the UOC is virtually defended by every OC around the world and the exceptions are few and negligible. UOC donated millions of dollars in help to the Ukrainian army, it is clear to everyone they are not the traitors, unless one so cunningly decides to lie about it.
“Rather than focusing on this public perception problem, the UOC currently promotes the fact that they are being persecuted, while ignoring the obvious reason why they are being persecuted, that is the perception remains that the UOC is part of the Moscow Patriarchate.” This is a lie, there is no perception. There is a made up excuse, but it is clearly a lie and everyone knows it. It is a typical communist technique to declare everyone guilty of siding with the enemy (real or made up) with no evidence. That’s why they are holding Metr. Arseny in jail for almost a year–they made a lot of accusations against him, but they have no evidence. NONE! He is “guilty” because he is the Abott of one of the Lavras that they want to steal! But of course they can’t charge him on that so they have to make things up! If this holy hierarch was guilty they would have convicted him already in the many times he had to show up in court. It’s a masquerade trial like the communists used to hold and the Ukrainian people know it, that’s why they don’t join the fake OCU church. Some of the trials are on line so you can see the mockery for yourself. Only a blind bat can’t see the truth by now. And the fake Tomos project failed, as the communists also failed. Those people that are suffering today, will be declared saints in a few generations, just like many of the Russian, Romanian ETC ETC ETC persecuted Christians were declared saints after they suffered during communism under MADE UP charges. They were purposely and falsely declared the enemy of the state too, and they are saints today, some even martyrs. They have relics and many miracles are done by them already while the enemies of God will always continue to spew made up charges and lies against His saints, until the end of time. Which side of history will you be on?
Sandy, there are only three canonical statuses for a local church. Either it is autocephalous, autonomous, or an exarchate.
Nobody recognizes the UOC as an autocephalous church. Nobody recognizes the UOC as an exarchate. The only canonical status that the UOC has is as an autonomous church of the Moscow Patriarchate. That’s the only reason why Metropolitan Onuphry is considered by anyone as a canonical bishop.
Here is a photo of Metropolitan Onuphry, just recently listed in the Moscow Patriarchate’s 2025 calendar as one of their bishops:
https://orthodoxtimes.com/photos-of-metropolitan-onufriy-and-members-of-the-uoc-in-the-moscow-patriarchates-calendar/
Joseph:
You are either 1. confused, 2. young and naive, or 3. a truth denier. 4. All of the above.
Moscow Patriarchate can list Metr. Onuphry on their calendars–no one can stop him–because the Moscow Patriarch did not stop communion with Metr. Onuphry. However, Metr. Onuphry is NOT listing Patr. Kirill on his Ukrainine calendars and therefore, Ukraine is not in communion with Patr. Kirill. As you know, they are no longer in communion since shortly after the war started. I am sure you are smart and know this, so please stop denying it. Similarly, Patr. Kirill stopped communion with Patr. Barto and stopped commemorating him. But Patr. Barto is still commemorating Patr. Kirill because he tries to convince us he is nice, although his actions of splitting the church like this and creating a schism tells me otherwise.
Many of us did not stop communion with Patr. Barto after he uncanonically granted a Tomos to the uncanonical OCU. So we are not in communion with his phony OCU church even though we don’t stop communion with Patr. Barto… But… I would not take communion from defrocked OCU “priests” and “bishops” because they are not legitimate. No one recognizes them except you, Barto and a (very negligible in number) few others, so they are not part of the Orthodox Church but outside it.
The calendar issue means absolutely nothing, choose your sources better and try to learn the truth from over there, from the real Christians that are crucified, not from the thieves that steal the canonical churches and beat up and even kill people. Christ did not create His church through violence, OCU clearly has a different God because if they would follow Christ they would be like Him.
Orthodoxtimes looks like a propaganda news source like many others, eg. “The wheel”. They have an agenda which is not always in the Orthodox spirit of the Holy Fathers so I would be careful what I would read if I were you.
Joseph, you are skilled at deflecting the issue(s). And, you surely earn every penny that you are paid to be a spokesman for the EPC! Frankly, we all expect nothing less from you, sir.
Alex, I’ve never belonged to any parish under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and neither have I ever received any money from anyone for the rather poor writing skills that I have.
Joseph, you don’t give yourself enough credit. Your writing skills are much better than you think!