ON BEHALF OF OUR COMMUNITY, HELLENISCOPE ASKS THE “WOKE” ARCHBISHOP TO EITHER REPENT AND ABANDON HIS HERESIES (FIRST STEP IS TO DENOUNCE THE FORDHAM “THEOLOGIANS”) OR LEAVE US IMMEDIATELY… BEFORE THE DAMAGE IS BEYOND REPAIR!! AND AS A FATHER OF TWO YOUNG MEN I DEMAND IT!

EDITOR’S NOTE (Nick Stamatakis).  The timing of this NY Post article could not be better – although, during the last year, we have all seen the enormous conservative turn of American youth, also clearly depicted in the November 5 elections… The article states the obvious: Young men are yearning for traditional values and authenticity and NOT wokeness and fake “modernism.”… They are not looking for priests and bishops who baptize adopted children of gay couples and who co-celebrate with heretics in Church buildings adorned with Rainbow Flags… They are looking for true Faith… They are leaving Protestantism and converting to Orthodoxy in big numbers. They find encouragement in popular personalities such as Jordan Peterson (followed by millions of young men – himself admitting that he is a convert to Orthodoxy also…(at least this is the impression he – intentionally? – gives). But they are not coming to woke GOA…

I predicted last year that AB Elpidophoros (he has now proven to be Elpidoktonos in every sense of the word) would be gone by the end of this year.  After the November elections, when “wokism” in all its forms and versions was loudly rejected by the overwhelming majority of Americans and particularly by over 80% (some put this number to over 90%) of the Greek-American community, the heretic Archbishop, has been rendered entirely IRRELEVANT.  He can continue to stay around and burden this community, but he has no voice or appeal… He is DONE!! The people, particularly the youth, could care less about his false, heretic message… Soon, they will decide to follow any other TRULY ORTHODOX Church… As you can see in the article below, there are plenty of choices – after all, this is America!  If you do not like the “product” an entity is trying to sell you, you go somewhere else…

The problem is that if he decides to stay, he will have also destroyed our community, as Greek Diaspora communities were built with the sweat and tears of generations of Greek Americans around their Churches and parishes… ON BEHALF OF OUR COMMUNITY, HELLENISCOPE ASKS THE “WOKE” ARCHBISHOP TO EITHER REPENT AND ABANDON HIS HERESIES (FIRST STEP IS TO DENOUNCE THE FORDHAM “THEOLOGIANS”) OR LEAVE US IMMEDIATELY… BEFORE THE DAMAGE IS BEYOND REPAIR!! AND AS A FATHER OF TWO YOUNG MEN I DEMAND IT!

December 3, 2024, n.stamatakis@aol.com   www.helleniscope.com

DISCLAIMER: The views and statements expressed in this article constitute constitutionally protected opinions of this author.

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source – nypost.com

Young men leaving traditional churches for ‘masculine’ Orthodox Christianity in droves

Ben Christenson was raised Anglican — church every Sunday, a religious school, and Christian camp every summer. But Christenson, 27 of Fairfax, Virginia, always found himself longing for a more traditional faith.

“The hard thing about growing up in my church is that there was a lot of change even in my lifetime,” he told The Post. “I realized that there really was no way to stop the change.”

He watched as traditions went by the wayside: The robed choir was swapped out for a worship band, lines were blurred on female ordination, and long-held stances on LGBT issues shifted.

“All of that stuff was basically fungible, which gave me a sense that the theological commitments are kind of fungible, too,” he said.

Ben Christenson converted to Orthodox Christianity in 2022.Samuel Corum
Christenson says the Anglican Church he grew up in changed too much.Samuel Corum

“It seems to me like the mainline denominations are hemorrhaging people,” he said. “If you still are serious about being a Christian now that there isn’t really as much social status tied up in it, and you want something that has some heft to it, there’s more of an awareness of Orthodoxy than there used to be.”

Ben Christenson has Orthodox iconography in his home in Virginia.Samuel Corum

Christenson, who works as a fundraiser for nonprofits, attends Saint Mary’s Orthodox Church in Falls Church, Virginia.

Conversion means that he now must frequently attend confession, recite prescribed prayers, and endure extreme fasting, sometimes over 40-day stretches. Weekly services are also highly ritualized and regimented, and can last up to two hours.

Orthodox church services are highly ritualized and can last up to two hours.Getty Images
Ben Christenson at home in Fairfax, Virginia, on November 24. “It seems to me like the mainline denominations are hemorrhaging people,” he told The Post.Samuel Corum

But he says he takes great comfort in the 2,000-year history of each tradition: “There is a sense of structure, of continuity … It’s the exact same. It hasn’t changed. It’s not going to change.”

“I think there are a lot of Protestants who want a more traditional, grounded, historical faith, and I think for young people especially, it makes sense because so much else in our life is changing all the time.”

Christenson’s story isn’t just anecdotal. As more and more Protestant churches unfurl Pride flags and Black Lives Matter banners in front of their gates, young men are trending toward more traditional forms of worship.

survey of Orthodox churches around the country found that parishes saw a 78% increase in converts in 2022, compared with pre-pandemic levels in 2019. And while historically men and women converted in equal numbers, vastly more men have joined the church since 2020.

Father Josiah Trenham has led Saint Andrew’s Orthodox Church in Riverside, California, for nearly three decades — and he’s noticed a swift jump in interest: “The last four to five years have been a massive uptick. It’s showing no sign of tapering off. If anything, it’s increasing still … It’s happening massively in untold numbers all over the country.”

Trenham’s church has 1,000 active participants, and, although recent converts in his congregation have been split roughly evenly between men and women, he agrees that most Orthodox churches around the country are gaining far more men.

“The feminization of non-Orthodox forms of Christianity in America has been in high gear for decades,” Trenham explained.

He points to the fact that the vast majority of attendees at most Christian churches are female, and many services are accordingly dominated by emotional songs, swaying, uplifted hands, and eyes closed in ecstasy.

“Men are much less comfortable [in those settings], and they have voted with their feet, which is why they’re minorities in these forms of worship,” he said. “Our worship forms are very traditional and very masculine.”

Father Josiah Trenham’s congregation has grown exponentially over the past five years.PatristicNectarFilms / Youtube
Orthodox Easter at All Saints Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the East Village, New York, in April this year.Getty Images

“Feminized” worship is exactly what pushed Elijah Wee Sit, a 17-year-old from Toronto, to explore Orthodoxy.

“Christianity in North America has become extremely emotional,” Wee Sit, who was raised Evangelical, told The Post. “Going to Evangelical worship services, I found it to be like emotionally driven rock concerts, with the lifting up of the hands.”

The 12th-grader says he was attracted to Orthodoxy because it is more traditional and masculine. He especially appreciates the challenge and the discipline required to adhere to intense prayer and fasting.

“The thing that really appealed to me about Orthodoxy is how static it was and how steadfast it is,” he said. “I generally do prefer something that is more traditional and really has that ancient feel to it.”

Elijah Wee Sit plans to convert to Orthodoxy before graduating high school.Courtesy of the subject

He’s taking catechism classes and plans to officially convert in the new year — before he even graduates high school.

His father, an immigrant from the Philippines, initially had some “reservations” but is supportive and drives him 25 minutes every Sunday so he can attend St. George Orthodox Church.

“Modern Christianity … has become very watered down,” Wee Sit said. “People go to church on Sunday, they sing a few songs, they listen to an hour-long sermon that seems more like a TED talk, and then they go home, and they just go on with their lives.”

Zachary Porcu, 36, is a catechist at Trenham’s church — meaning he helps teach incoming members about the faith. He says there are currently more than 100 people in classes waiting to be baptized, and that there’s always “a little clique of young men” among them.

Dr. Zachary Porcu says Orthodox Christianity presents young men with an adventure and a challenge.Courtesy of Dr. Zachary Porcu

In recent years, he’s seen the internet as a major driver: “Internet Orthodoxy is a recognized phenomenon … We get people who come in all the time who are like, ‘I was on the internet arguing with people, and I discovered Orthodoxy and I found your church.’”

Porcu, a theology professor who converted at age 24, understands why his faith is appealing to young men: “Orthodoxy is a call to adventure because it asks you to fast, to pray, to do all these physical things, to do this journey of self-improvement that I think can be contextualized into a very masculine, appealing dimension.”

Psychologist and author Jordan Peterson, who has developed a massive following among young men, told The Post he’s noticed a growing number of Gen Z boys like Elijah trending toward Orthodoxy — in part, he theorizes, because tradition makes it unquestionable.

“Unlike a Protestant service, which is much more dependent on the preacher, you can’t criticize an Orthodox service. It’s like going to a ballet and saying, like, ‘What’s going on here?’ Well, that’s a stupid question,” Peterson told The Post.

Dr. Jordan Peterson says Orthodox services are like a dance.Samuel Corum for NY Post

“[A ballet is] the same thing as an Orthodox ceremony. It’s ritualized. It’s a dance. And it’s not the words only. It’s the words in the architecture, in the images, in the history. And you’re participating in it.”

Bailey Mullins, 26, grew up Baptist in South Carolina.

He began to have questions about religion in high school and college — when he noticed many mainline denominations were getting “co-opted by politics,” fracturing into conservative and liberal branches, and getting distracted by cultural debates like LGBTQ issues.

Some traditions in Orthodox churches stretch back 2,000 years.AFP via Getty Images

A religion course with a professor who was an Orthodox Christian inspired him to attend his first liturgy at age 21. He converted two years later.

“I wanted to be somewhere that was stable and that wasn’t going to change,” he told The Post. “It felt very ancient, and that was not something I’d experienced elsewhere.”

Mullins, a graphic designer, now lives in Alexandria, Tennessee. He says more young men are finding Orthodoxy because the religion is, in and of itself, masculine.

Bailey Mullins says Orthodoxy requires young people to put God over themselves.Courtesy of Bailey Mullins
Mullins, a graphic designer, said he converted to Orthodoxy because he felt other Protestant churches have grown to have an “emphasis on emotional experience” rather than the “stable” church he now attends.Courtesy of Bailey Mullins

“One might say Orthodoxy itself is more masculine, especially when compared to the more feminized forms of Christianity that exist today where the emphasis is on emotional experience, feeling good, and appealing to the self,” he said.

“Orthodoxy isn’t about us, it’s about God, and I think young people today can intuitively sense that out. We know when we’re being pandered to.”

What do you think? Post a comment.

He attends Saint Peter’s Orthodox Church, which he says is mostly filled with young converts like him, who also want to feel a sense of stability in a chaotic world.

“Everything’s changing. Protestant churches are changing. The Catholic Church is changing. The culture is changing. The government is changing.

“People want something that is historic and not going to change. They want something that’s stable and sound and is not built on sand.”

42 COMMENTS

  1. No Nick … they are fully aware that their Protestant Churches have always been Heretic religious cult worshiping Zionism , not Christianity ! And their dominant ruling parties are clearly servants of Zionism and the Devil ! Gallop Polls .. 78% of the populist of America considers the U.S government corrupt thru and thru” which mean the Evangelical Protestant ruling parties of America .. the Republican and democratic party .. have always ruled America by electing forever Evangelical Protestants to dominate the Presidency , U.S congress . and Government of America to the tune of 65% of all seats of Congress and when adding the Jewish Zionist. goes up to 72% ! Therefore , all converts are escaping from the now acknowledged Evangelical and Jewish Zionist churches of America , Britain and Germany ! In Nazi Germany in 1944 .. Evangelical Protestant population represented over 70 percent of the population and government of Nazi Germany who committed genocide , war crimes and crimes against humanity highlighted in the Nuremburg tribunal trials of Nazi Germany against Jews, Orthodox Christians of Eastern Europe , Greece , Cyprus and Russians..killing 75 million! Today .. the Protestant population is now 40% of Germany , still the dominant population , with the lost protestant faithful becoming Atheist , and explains the ” Good Protestant German” support with the “Good Protestants American”to continue their criminal support of Genocide by U.S and Israel !

  2. I know of a specific incident where a prospective Catechumen did an “about face” and walked away from a GOARCH parish after finding out what the archbishop did with that baptism in Glyfada…up until that point the individual was attracted to Orthodoxy because it retained a conservative stance against the “alphabet soup” (LGBT…XYZ) agenda. It is true that lack of authenticity by the clergy in general will continue to deter those seeking the Truth.

    The NYPost article is correct about the massive increase in the number of converts to Orthodoxy…however they don’t point out that the overwhelming majority of these conversions is occurring OUTSIDE the boundaries of GOARCH.

  3. It is not all lost. Some of the Ephraim Monasteries do turn people to God that become converts. Maybe because Fr. Ephraim saw the “situation” here, he created these monasteries to save the Greeks from looking bad and being embarrassed by their leaders and also to strengthen our faith. God will eventually step in, we just have to have patience. He will clean the “mess”. We visit the Ephraim Monasteries even though we are not even Greek and we don’t understand the language! We love St. Joseph and Fr. Epraim! Don’t let what your leaders do make you believe all it’s lost. Most of us outside the GOARCH, do know the truth. I think if we all do our part and keep the faith and do more prayers, God will save His Holy Church from those people.

  4. This article seems to suggest that Jordan Peterson has converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. I know that he is friends with Johnathan Pageau but have not heard of his conversion.

    • I agree – he may not be… But he has spoken so many times and so openly and adoringly that he gave this impression… He was the one who created the confusion…

  5. For us, that are “cradle” Orthodox, the Fasting, confession, prayer that attracted these converts to Orthodoxy, are mostly alien concepts. I challenge anyone to confirm that they go to church from Orthros until the end. They attend church on weekdays. They go to regular confession before receiving communion. They fast for 40 days before Christmas and Pascha. They fast Wednesday and Friday.

    In my church, everyone strolls in at any time they wish. The church is empty by the time the Gospel is read and full just before communion. G.O churches are mostly used for weddings, funerals and baptisms. Over 90% of names that I hear that are having their funeral, I have never heard of.

    These ills of the church have been brought over from Greece. At the Anastasi service, the church empties after midnight. Even people that are third generation Greek are acting as if they just got off the boat when it comes to church attendance.

    The Post article keeps saying that Orthodoxy is “muscular”. Sure, we dont cater to LGBTQ and that’s how it should be. A church should not cater to anyone, including those looking for a “muscular” church.
    This is a problem with “American” plentitude of choices, including religion. We, cradle Orthodox had no choice. These converts are not looking for the true faith. They are looking for a church that reflects their ideology.

    • If it was simply ideology Protestantism would have solved the issue in the same way the market solves it. It is much deeper though as “wokism” has defied the most essential foundation of religion, that is God is Nature and God cannot be conceived but as contrary to Nature. The LGBTG wokism lost the game in politics and particularly in religion the moment it preached contrary to nature. Period.

      • Let’s not get too worked up about this conversion to Orthodoxy. The total number of converts are minuscule, compared to America’s population. People convert to Budhism and Islam at much, much greater numbers than to Orthodoxy. PEW research shows that 23% of American Muslims are converts from Christianity. JD Vance is a convert to Catholicism. Trump was a a Methodist and now he’s an Evangelical.

        And I agree that wokism has no place in the church. As masculinity has no place either. Or nationalism. Or anti-immigrant rhetoric. St Paul said that “there is no man or woman”. If those converts are looking for a faith that keeps women barefoot and pregnant like a “handmaiden” they are looking at the wrong place. We honor and worship a woman more than any male figure. Let’s not forget that most of Christ’s teachings would have been considered woke today.

        • You were on the way to make a sane and rational statement but you somehow managed to make a …salad again. When St Paul said “there is no man and woman” he wasn’t blessing … gender neutrality!! Ha…ha.. You are unbelievable…

          • Exactly! Also Bob Karp is mistaken writing Trump was a Methodist — no, he was Presbyterian like Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, his old church elder on 29th st NY.

  6. Just curious about this statement: was loudly rejected by the overwhelming majority of Americans and particularly by over 80% (some put this number to over 90%) of the Greek-American community. Would love to know where you got this “over 80%” of the Greek American community (“largely rejecting wokism”)

    • Overtime I have provided many examples, as someone who has studied polling and every other social science method. I have spoken about the value of informal methods which avoid the “traps” of polling. I will give you here the latest example. A few days after the election I was part of a 600 people gathering consisted mostly of Greek restaurateurs and their friends and families. I would define such a gathering as the social, economic and moral backbone of our community. I was going around asking people about politics and everything else. And also I asked their leaders: “How many in this group of people voted for Harris last week?” The answer that came back from all sides was unanimous: “Probably NONE”… you don’t have to take my word for it. You can verify it yourself: I dare you to ask around and find me ONE Greek American restaurant owner who voted for Harris..ONE!!! This is very easy and verifiable because they don’t keep their mouth shut.. Their workers and their friends and everyone in their town knows who they support politically.. Go ahead!

      • Nick. I’m not the only one doubting your 80% Greeks for Trump. And you, having attained a degree in polling can not base your estimate on the “probably none” when you asked their leaders on whom they voted for. I have to ask again. Did you get your degree at Trump university? If you did, ask for refund.

        • You live in New Jersey. Please go around and find me ONE Greek restaurant owner who voted for Kamala. Just ONE… As I said before I consider restaurant owners “representative samples” of our community for many reasons that do not fit here. I asked many people and still waiting for ONE name

  7. The major obstacle to bringing converts into the GOA is the emphasis on being Greek. For the GOA to effectively evangelizes a complete paradigm shift needs to take place. My parish, which uses all English, continues to grow where the other parish in town, which uses 60percent Greek, continues to die. Our parish has more non-greeks than Greeks. We welcome non Greeks while the other parish looks upon them with suspicion wondering why they are interested in Orthodoxy. We do the Lord’s prayer in 3 languages.

    • I agree with opening up the parishes to all non-Greeks as long as we give some emphasis on Bible study groups that learn to use the biblical / Alexandrian Greek. A basic part of our culture and philosophy (not only during the New Testament era but centuries before and after) was and is cosmopolitan and ecumenical. And peaceful – not hegemonic/exploitative. All this comes naturally to us – we don’t have to try much to practice it… Evetyone should be welcome to our Churches as they are in our houses and our parties and our restaurants.. Hospitality is central to our culture – we have to just take it a few steps further.

    • JK
      I disagree with your total abandonment of Greek. Our main argument, that we posses the correct faith (Orthodox), is based on the knowledge of the Greek language, which connects us with the Gospels, epistles and all of what consists of Christianity’s foundation. In My church, the hymns are sung mostly in Greek and they sound much more harmonious than if translated to English. The creed, Lord’s prayer, Gospel and epistle are read in both. The sermon is in English. Books in the pews are available to follow in English. Which I know is the right way to conduct the liturgy
      Jews and Moslems use Hebrew and Arabic. They are not losing any congregants. Why can’t we use Greek? Catholicism, after abandoning Latin in the 60’s has been weakening. Orthodoxy is not a salad bar. Converts have to adjust to us. Not we to them. Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He left us his commands in Greek. You can never translate the nuance of the Greek into English.
      Here’s an example: In the Gospel of the Sunday before, it was about the rich man who was ready to “eat, drink and be merry”. Until God addressed him as “Afron”. The english translation in all bible versions is “Fool”. Fool is not even close. Afron means someone who has lost his bearings., who is lost, who is not thinking correctly, while a fool means someone that is of low intelligence.

      When we are “afron”, God is telling us not to accumulate wealth on earth, but in heaven, by doing good deeds. An “afron” learns and changes. A fool doesn’t have the mental capacity to learn. That’s why we need Greek.

      • Bobby, the correct faith is based on knowing Christ not the Greek language. Many people throughout history knew Christ and had no knowledge of the Greek language. There is nothing wrong with knowing Greek but it does not connect us to Christ. Please read John 17:3.

  8. Bob:
    If “Fasting, confession, prayer” are “mostly alien concepts” to us, it’s time we reflect and get better acquainted to them because Christ fasted and prayed and told us to confess. If we don’t follow him, what exactly are we doing? We must at least try to make some kind of effort, otherwise we are sorry orthodox examples for the catechumens. Some of them for sure will get further than us because they will put in the effort, like Fr. Seraphim Rose and many others.

    Of course Christ was not woke. I never heard of anyone stating this! I think your interpretation is wrong. The way I understand it is that there is no difference in the way God values a man vs a woman, a slave vs a free man, a rich man vs a poor man etc, because we are all the children of God and we are all equally valuable and loved by our Creator, no matter our gender or social status.

  9. Th emphasis on “masculinity” in this article seems overly done, like the author is trying too hard to explain male conversion to Orthodoxy. Young converts who respond to the Orthodox Church may initially perceive it as a “masculine” way to worship. Perhaps it’s what attracts them at first. But staying Orthodox requires much more than a masculine stance to repel what someone finds distasteful (feminization, lgbtqia+, self-absorption, a fickle church service, etc.). They are sticking around for much more substantial reasons. I hear converts say things like “a deeper relationship with Christ”, “a desire to follow the Holy Spirit”, and “repentance” as their true motivations for the Orthodox faith. If masculinity were the main driver, we’d see young men leaving just as quickly as they came when an antidote to the feminine was no longer needed or could be easily be fulfilled another way.

    • You may be right on the excessive emphasis on masculinity – the loss of it being the end result of decades of abusive feminism and woke culture in education. But it may be a rallying cry that motivates social actors to start the fight against the root cause: going against Nature, which is equivalent to defying the presence of God.

  10. More masculinity most likely is referring to the fact that the Orthodox Church still holds to ascetical practices that the Roman Catholics abandoned in the last two centuries and which the Protestants never had much of. These practices which the monastics call struggles are the 4 fasts, the Wednesday and Friday fasts, keeping of confession, not shortening the services, no pews, doing prostrations, standing, not watering down the tough Christian doctrines, keeping church music sacred. I’m sure we could name more practices.
    The bottom line is the Orthodox almost never change doctrines or practices to suit the times.
    Keeping all these things is not an end in themselves, but a means to achieve theosis which means union with God. Those that reach this goal, we call Saints. They are one with God. They no longer practice their will, but the will of God.

  11. I went to 2 Greek churches before, 15-20 yrs ago. I left because the priests were very pro pope and one of them even yelled at us during his sermon that the union with Rome is inevitable and that we should just accept it and not talk with each other negatively about the pope and Barto meeting. My son asked why the priest is yelling because he was in 5th grade and got a little distressed about it. He didn’t understand. We left and never went back even though is a really beautiful church, relatively new with amazing iconography. So the priests are doing damage to their own churches by making people like us never return. The other priest gave me a pamphlet with the same nonsense, it was about the pope. I could not believe it! I go to this beautiful Church in NY because they had relics from St. Nectarios to pray because a family member was very ill. I go to pray and mind my own business, and the priest comes to greet me and gives me a pamphlet about the pope! Hello? If I would want a pamphlet about the pope I’d go to a catholic church! I argued with him a little, pointing to what recent saints say about the pope, the union, and ecumenism, but he wasn’t hearing it, so I left and threw his pope pamphlet in the garbage and never went back.
    I think in order to change the situation, all of us should try to change things at parish level. But in the church I go to now, although not Greek, it is under Barto. I have been a regular member for a few years. But if Barto does anything stupid come 2025 meeting with the pope, I will just live. I don’t have to stay. I will join OCA or Rocor. I will not be a regular member next year because he does not represent my believes.

    • Hmm, sounds strange, almost unbelievable frankly, to me as well. I’m a GOA priest serving in the northeast and the only mention I ever hear of the pope and papists is on a few websites (ie here or monomakhos) or from articles about the EP. I’m certainly friendly with them, but there’s no movement amongst the clergy (or laity) in our metropolis towards union.

      • Yes but you cannot pretend that you did not see what your archbishop did in St. Bart’s with the Episcopalians or what his subordinates did – in his presence – in St. Nicholas at Ground Zero when they co-celebrated with the Catholic Cardinal of NY. What else do you want to see? You are one step from the official announcement of Union with the Catholics. And sone of you call me and ask me to present the case against it. Please have some dignity and support the faith publicly. You are not simple employees, or are you?

      • How about the meetings they have at the World Council of Churches, when pagans do their rituals in front of Orthodox Bishops and the pope, with incense? It makes me sick to my stomach, to see icons of our Lord, who died for ours sins, next to Budha and the pagans. Those pagans are calling the spirits in their rituals, but certainly not the Holy Spirit. We want to follow Christ. He and the apostles did not participate in pagan rituals. It should not be so hard to understand why some of us are very upset about this.

  12. I have been to multiple GOA churches and never once heard the pope mentioned nor did I see pamphlets about the pope. Sandy, sounds strange to me.

    • JK: It was very strange and very upsetting to me too, that’s why I stopped going. Both times it was around a time that the pope and Barto were having a schedule meeting coming up. But those 2 times were obviously not the only 2 times I went to those churches. THe priest that was advertising the pope where the St. Necktarios relics were, actually was admiring the pope so much that it annoyed me. Because I did not go to an orthodox church to be converted or to discuss the leader of a different denomination. It was unreal.

    • JK,

      It seems the timing and geography of your visits to GOA churches may be off…next time, make an effort to show up on big feasts where Methodios of Boston, Elpidophoros (and others) show up with their Roman Catholic Cardinal buddies who even speak and “bless” the Orthodox “flock” with incense, the “myrr-vessel” of Holy Friday evening services, and sometimes even speak or participate in the service with a reading?

      Who needs mentions and pamphlets about the Pope and “Union” when the Cardinal is literally “in our midst” during an Orthodox service?

      • Markos,
        You are right, the situation you are describing is much worse than my pamphlet encounter. I have never been to a church that does this. I would not stay in a church at a service where Catholic cardinals are present. I would go to a different OC for that service or stay home or watch the service at a different church, on line. They are trying to get people used to the idea of co-celebrations, like we are all the same and all paths lead to salvation.

  13. I repeat, I have never been in a GOA parish where the pope was mentioned or where there where pamphlets about the pope. The most common pamphlet I see in GOA parishes is the church timeline which demonstrates how the other churches broke away from Orthodoxy.

    • Respectfully, from someone in a GOARCH church that is heavy in Archons, I beg to differ. One of them had the gall to stand up right after a blessed divine liturgy and blaspheme Christ’s body of the church and His holy tradition by suggesting that the EP should be more widely recognized like the Pope. That just like the EP he has apostolic succession, and that we are brother churches.

      It took almost every ounce in me not to re-enact St Nicholas and bless my hand across his face.

  14. All I’m going to say is that I wish to heaven there were options in my area. Everything here is Greek – no OCA, no ROCOR. And recently, our priest *has* been putting it out that just as Peter and Andrew were brothers, so too are Rome (i.e., Peter) and Constantinople (i.e., Andrew). That’s true, Peter and Andrew *were* brothers. But you can’t tell me that there’s any remote resemblance between St. Peter and those who have occupied the See of Rome over the past thousand years. I want no part of a false union!

  15. There are prophecies that at the end the Churches will be full of splendor, but we won’t be able to enter in them because of what occurs within its walls. I never understood what this meant but if it will become common practice that other denominations will take part in our Liturgies, definitely people like me will no longer enter. Some people may be ok with it but I am not because to me it is not the same Orthodox Church anymore since our cannons forbid serving with heretics. If it comes down to this, I think there will be priests that will do Liturgies at someone’s home once in a while. But I never took part in a multidenominational service and I am not going to start now. I would rather stay home than to take part in this.
    If we don’t guard our faith like our ancestors did. If we just let things slide, we will lose our Church.

  16. Can someone -especially Mr. Nick address the Nativity at the Vatican? What does that black/white cloth represent? It is not a Christian Symbol– more reason to convert to Orthodox, as one can only hope and pray we stick to hay in the Manger-and not a Muslim covering. What say you?

    • Sandy,

      In theory this action is part of a larger serious restoration discussion with archaeologists that has been going on for years…but your point is valid…who trusts Erdogan and his buddies these days?

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