By Nick Stamatakis
A week after he was forced to retreat on the issue, Greek PM Mitsotakis raised once again the subject of legislation for gay marriage, this time without setting a timetable for passage of this law at the Parliament, and taking off the table the issue of surrogate mother that caused so much opposition from the Church and many corners of society. “No surrogate mothers will be allowed”, said Mitsotakis. But it was unclear whether EU laws allow for such “deviation” and “inequity”. It seemed rather like a trick the Greek PM used to “soften” the heavy opposition by the Church of Greece.
According to some privileged information we received, the European Union applied heavy pressure not only to Mitsotakis but also to the political leaders of SYRIZA and PASOK/KINAL. Mitsotakis said in the interview with Greek state TV ERT that this is a “conscience issue and ND MPs are free to vote as they please, although he expects that some will abstain to facilitate the passage of the law. It seems that about 90 New Democracy parliament members (out of 158) are against the “gay marriage” law. This number, along with the guaranteed opposition of the three right-wing parties (about 30 MPs) and the possible defection of some PASOK MPs, creates the possibility of an uphill battle for the ND government.
The major deciding factor in this will be the final position of the Church. Every other day, one by one, Metropolitans take a strong position against this legislation. Three days ago, it was the Metropolitan of Salonica, and tomorrow, the Metropolitan of Piraeus, known for his traditionalist views, will follow. At the center of the debate is Mt.Athos and its privileged position in matters of faith. The recent letter the abbots sent to Pat. Bartholomew, rejecting AB Elpidophoros and his “gay baptism” is sure to have a significant effect on the whole process.
It’s difficult to understand why, since civil unions are already in existence in Greece, and in addition, one man or one woman is allowed (according to a 1945 law) to adopt children under certain conditions, why is it so important to proceed to call gay couples “marriage”… Why change the traditional roles of a father and a mother have in the development of the children, without taking into account the psychological studies that only recently have started to appear in Europe on the effect such decisions have on the children. None of these studies has shown any positive results – and many have shown a great adverse impact on the growth of the children in gay families.
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Greece Poised for Same-Sex Civil Marriage Legislation, Sparking Debate
ATHENS, Greece – Greece’s centre-right government is preparing to submit legislation allowing same-sex civil marriages, a move met with both anticipation and resistance within the country. Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis announced the impending bill on Wednesday despite reservations from a portion of his own party and the influential Orthodox Church.
“What we are going to legislate is equality in marriage,” Mitsotakis declared in an interview with state-run ERT television. “We will remove any discrimination regarding sexual orientation when it comes to marital relationships.”
However, the proposed law will not extend parenthood rights through surrogacy to same-sex couples, a contentious issue that continues to divide Greek society. “We won’t change the law on assisted parenthood,” Mitsotakis asserted. “The idea of women becoming child-producing machines on demand… that is not going to happen.”
Several lawmakers within the governing New Democracy party, particularly from the right wing, have expressed their disapproval of any major revisions to Greece’s marriage and parenthood laws to include same-sex couples. Nevertheless, Mitsotakis indicated that he won’t force his party members to endorse the proposed legislation, aiming to secure cross-party support for its approval. “I believe we can secure the bill’s passage,” he stated. “While some will benefit greatly from this decision, resolving a real problem for them, others may disagree but ultimately won’t be negatively affected.”
Allowing same-sex civil marriage formed a key campaign promise for Mitsotakis, who secured a resounding second term in last year’s elections. The issue gained further prominence following the summer election of Stefanos Kasselakis as leader of the main opposition Syriza party. Kasselakis, who married his male partner in New York in October, sparked controversy by expressing his desire to have children through a surrogate mother.
It’s important to note that Greece legalized same-sex civil partnerships in 2015. However, the Orthodox Church maintains its opposition to same-sex civil marriage, arguing that it could pave the way for future challenges to its stance on parental rights for such couples. The Church categorically refuses to perform religious marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples.
As Greece prepares for this significant legislative debate, one thing is certain: the path to equal marriage rights for same-sex couples will not be without its challenges, fueled by deeply held beliefs and differing opinions within both the political and religious spheres.
How disgusting to call homosexual unions a “marriage”??
Homosexual agenda has stolen a sacred word and tainted it.
I can’t believe in 2008 the deceitful (and gay) Obama originally agreed with Bush Jr.: marriage meant one man with one woman…
We see from this, how Godless secular world changes with the wind — but Not in true Mother Church!
Despite all the heretics like shameful Karloutsos and Elpidoforos.
Seems we agree on this one. The word “marriage”, from time immemorial, denotes a union (usually religious, but sometimes only civil) between a man and a woman. Period, and end of story. Why the homosexual community, which numbers less than 3% of the world population, INSISTS on calling this union a “marriage” and changing the meaning of the word is simply a selfish, deceitful, and “in-your-face” move intent on shoving their homosexuality down our throats. As if to say, “You will accept it, and you will like it!” Ridiculous. But let’s just focus on Greeks and the Greek Orthodox Church for a moment. I am not judging anyone here (because ultimately, I don’t give a damn what they’re doing in their bedroom… just don’t shove it down MY throat and tell me I have to “celebrate” it), but in order to put things into perspective, we HAVE to ask certain questions, right?
So: how many of these gays and lesbians who want their union to be called a “marriage” go to Church? How many are ACTIVE in the Church? (Right now, “Church” will be used to mean the Greek Orthodox Church.) How many of them realize that, if they marry outside of the Church (i.e. in this case, in a civil court), they are effectively excommunicating themselves FROM the Church? This means that they cannot receive Holy Communion (or ANY of the Sacraments, for that matter), and they cannot become Godparents. Why? Because they are no longer members “in good standing” in the Church. They have, essentially, turned their backs on the Church and “married” someone of the same sex, something that the Church does not allow. Are these people “okay” with this? Because you know what’s going to happen, right? One day, someone is going to ask one of these gay couples (who will now be “married” under the new proposed law) to baptize their son or daughter and be their Godparents. They will go to meet with the priest and the priest will tell them that because they married outside of the Church, they are not members in good standing, which means they cannot participate in the Sacraments. The priest cannot “marry” them (in order to MAKE them members in good standing) because the Church does not and will not marry same-sex couples. The gay couple is now caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. So now this gay couple is going to raise a huge stink about how the Church is discriminating against them, how the Church has no right to do this (because, of course, God loves EVERYBODY), and so on and so on with the ridiculousness. There’s going to be a huge scandal, and more will happen after the first. The whole thing is going to turn into a circus. Let me be clear: the Greek Orthodox Church will absolutely, positively never, NOT EVER, perform the Sacrament of Marriage on a same-sex couple. These people need to understand this. If they’re not church-goers and don’t give a damn and just want to be “married” in the eyes of the law, well, then, I don’t give a damn either. I just don’t want to hear them whining about it later when they want certain “rights” from the Church. Oh, and they’ll probably be denied a funeral, too, because… well, why should an Orthodox funeral be conducted on someone who excommunicated themselves from the Greek Orthodox Church? Does everyone see how this is spiraling out of control? Think about this.
And for God’s sake, Nick, PLEASE STOP calling it a “gay baptism” (referring to the infamous baptisms of those two infants in Greece that Elpidophoros conducted). It’s NOT a “gay baptism” because the children are not gay!! Only the “parents” are. Conducting the baptisms does NOT mean or even imply that one is “pro” gay marriage. But of course, you’ll continue harping down the same rhetoric to sell newspapers (just like TNH, who has completely lost its credibility with me, but not that you or they care).
And incidentally, the Mount Athos letter to Patriarch Bartholomew that expresses “the concern of our Holy Community” over the events surrounding those baptisms, simply asks His All Holiness to merely “lend a listening ear to our concerns on the sensible subject”, that is, the subject of a “wrong impression” that was “created regarding the acceptance by the Church of the sacrament of same-sex marriage, a message contrary to the doctrines and teachings of the Orthodox Church.” In other words, they’re not even asking the Patriarch to make any kind of a STATEMENT on the matter! (Although it seems that everyone is waiting for Bartholomew to issue some kind of a statement denouncing same-sex marriages, something that he really doesn’t need to do because Church doctrine already says this! But, okay, let’s let the Patriarch “remind” everyone that this is the case.) I just wanted to stress this point. Jeez, the mountain is getting bigger by the day for no reason… it should have just been left as a molehill and it would have faded away…
The main issue is not accepting homosexuality in Church (for Orthodoxy it is inconceivable) but undermining the institution of the family, without which society cannot be considered “healthy” or “normal”. And raising children in such an environment was already proven to have negative effects.
You insist stubbornly on the Mt.Athos letter: Do you realize this letter was a response from Bartholomew to Mt. Athos to accept with honors Elpidophoros? And that Mt. Athos basically said “we will not because he is heretic”? This is only one little step before Mt. Athos leading a revolt against both. And it is certainly a camouflaged demand for Bartholomew to take a stand. Why is it so difficult for you to understand this? Why do you interpret the letter literally after so many centuries of “byzantine” tradition in hiding thoughts behind words?
ELLHNAS are you same poster from 2019 who made excellent fun of Elpidoktonos’ arrival with kids throwing rose petals at him? It was hilarious!
ELLHNAS I know you are feelings are hurt and you are trying in every way possible to help the heretic Archbishop. If you want any further comments posted here you will play fairly by the rules. You will not submit again false translations or non-existent “news”. Period. Go post at Orthodox Times (paid by the State Dept.) or Orthodox Observer or anywhere else.
Greeks should be storming the street in protest like they did during the covid lockdowns. This is what happens when you sell your soul to the EU monster by joining it. Thanks be to God many hierarchs, Athos, and faithful Greeks are fighting back.
It will be truly embarrassing and a stain on Greece if it is the first Orthodox nation to accept this aberration.
Exactly Petros.
Greek Orthodox faithful should protest this abomination &
reason the liberal Overlords are forcing this is they know faithful too busy to oppose them
You are right Sir G.. and they should be protesting the human right and religious rights oppression of Orthodox Christians by the Jewish Zionist regimes of Zelensky, Netanyahue and Biden in Ukraine and Palestine , but they do not because they are too busy , and simply are just “Good Orthodox Christians” like the “Good Germans of Nazi Germany” who allow their Tyrants to break laws of Man and God !
However, having said that, the church of Greece is funded by the Greek Government , and therefore , they have the ability to extort or blackmail anything they want from the Greek Orthodox Church! Today State funded Universities have been blackmailed and extorted to mandate Covid Vaccines to there student population , and many other unpopular Political positions! What do you actually believe that Bartholomew voluntarily destabilzed the religious order of the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine? No you should be remind3ed that EU , Nato, and U.S Mob Boss Mistotakis would have had to Green light the meddling of Bartholomew in the internal Affairs of Ukraine ! And you could bet your last U.S. and EU dollar …that Bartholomew and the Greek Orthodox Church could have their funding terminated! Net Net … the Greek Orthodox Church of Greece is not a Privately funded institution , in which they do not have to do anything Mistotkisk says or demands! Therefore , Bartholomew and his Church of Greece …will be accountable for violating the values of the original Church of Christ in complying with any gay marriage laws! In other words who care if Mistotakis and his Gang of traitors pass pro Gay Marriage laws in Greece, unless Bartholomew complies with these laws , which he does not have to do , unless he is considered a State funded entity , and therefore , required to follow State laws ! in America … Tax Exemption status can easily be revoked by the ruling Crime families of the U.S congress to extort and subvert the Relgious freedom of the Christian Churches of America ! There really is no separation of Church and Media from State!
What Orthodox Christian should understand, The Gays know this , and why they hate Russia and all the Muslim Countries of the Middle East … and why they make claims that Putin control the Orthodox Church of Moscow and Ukraine ! Putin calls gays “social extremist” undermining the traditional values of the Russia people! In the end …the people are accountable for all the actions of their Tyrants … including Bartholomew
I can’t tell you how many Greek friends I know dropped out of GOA. Folks are fed up.
And how many Evangelicals and Protestants have dropped out of the Zionist Evangelical Church who publically demand the genocide of Orthodox and Catholic and Muslim Faithful of Gaza and their churches and Mosques!
How many Evangelical and Protestant friends of mine ..stand up for Israel and genocide because they have been taught that they and Jewish Zionist Israel ..are the chosen people to rule the world , and get this …accelerate the second coming of Christ to make Israel the dominant Nation of the world ! Than God …the Presbyterian Church of America dropped out ot thei cabal ..and condemned Israel for the Human rights and attrocities they were committing against the people of Palestine! They were called “Anti Semetic” !
The answer is a Referendum. Let the public decide, and we know what public opinion is on this topic.
Based on the untrustworthy polls that the Greek TV propagandists promote, ~70+% of New Democracy voters do NOT support this nonsense, and yet, he doesn’t listen to his own voters, because he is “owned” by foreign masters… All these politicians keep citing the EU and others (their masters), but they forget that they should be representing the “will of the Greek people”. No wonder why in the streets and coffee-shops of Greece, it is said that citizens are increasingly referring to him as “Μητσο-σατανακης”, a title that started circulating in the days of Covid, when he shut down Churches, banned the celebration of Theophany, when he fined people taking out their trash without wearing a mask, when he imposed fines on the elderly who refused vaccination…
Any protests should be along these lines. Referendum Now….
They can say what they want about the late archbishop Christodoulos, but when he collected over a million signatures back in the day, he successfully delayed anti-Greek legislation for 25 years (till today)….of course, the Synod remains silent because the “overlords” specifically picked a replacement for Christodoulos who would be “obedient” to the same external masters…
Bottom line…they (Mitsotakis’ overlords) brought the wealthy, Capitalist Kasselakis in order to help gather enough “votes” from his “comrades” at Syriza as well as from other leftist, knowing that New Democracy didn’t have sufficient votes to pass this legislation… We have been writing this specific view here at Helleniscope for a few months now…The overlords don’t care if Kasselakis results in Syriza’s demise…as long as the globalist woke objective will be met.
It is a shame that Floods in Thessaly aren’t enough of a warning sign from God for both politicians and society to repent…What is next? Are they waiting for an extinct volcano to wake up, or a even a meteorite, or perhaps the Turks might take half the Agean (authorized by “Greek” politicians behind closed doors), to continue the historical pattern from the Biblical days, where every time the people of God fall into apostasy, they get conquered, and fall into slavery at the hands of barbarians (like the E.U. and its loyal “marionette” politicians)?