EDITOR’S NOTE (Nick Stamatakis). I have noted before that over 70% of the monks of Mt.Athos live away from the main monasteries – and we have learned in recent years that they are quite displeased by the huge numbers of tourists/visitors to the Holy Mountain that disturb the peace of their reclusive life. These are the true keepers of the faith. These monks have come together, in the grave circumstances faced by all the Greeks, to issue their condemnation to the Mitsotakis government, representing the globalist “New World Order” and imposing a law against nature and the Orthodox faith. They call for the excommunication of those M.P.s who will vote for this Law!!!
ΤΟ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ ΠΡΩΤΟΤΥΠΟ ΚΕΙΜΕΝΟ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΕΙ
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From the Cells Of Mt. Athos Monks Condemn the Mitsotakis Same-Sex Law and Erupt Against the New World Order!!
The Mitsotakis government’s bill on the marriage of same-sex couples and adoption, which has provoked the reaction of the Holy Synod as well as of the Christian world, is characterized by the Holy Mount Kelliotes Fathers as an “Desecration Bill”.
In their greeting, the monks note that with a clear conscience they are resisting the “disgusting decision” and the “blame of the New World Order”. In fact, addressing the parliamentarians who will vote on the bill, they unleash thunderbolts:
“Members of the Greek Parliament, who told you that the Orthodox Church of our Triadic God recognizes a “right” to perversion? Not only does it burn it, but it also cuts off – it excommunicates all the unrepentant guys who self-identify freely as homosexuals, but also their patrons and promoters!” the fathers of Mount Athos note and add among other things:
“Not only does the Church mourn the perversion, not only does it have to ring the bells mournfully, because parties and parliamentarians were found to propose the legalization of “marriage” between homosexuals, but it also has to immediately excommunicate those who theoretically support homosexuality, whatever They live defiantly and unrepentantly as homosexuals, those who propagate homosexuality, those who ultimately want to sodomize Greek society…”.
The online greeting of the Holy Fathers of Cells in detail:
Fathers and brothers,
We address our greeting in Christ to the Orthodox Synagogue in the city of Athens, where Paul, the Apostle of the Nations, preached the Word of God, according to which: “In these times of ignorance God is commanding men everywhere to repent” ( Prax. Apost., ch. IZ’, verse 30).
We came together, fighting the Good Fight, to declare with clarity of spirit and purity of conscience our complete opposition and strong opposition to the abominable decision of every government to legislate in favor of the “marriage” of “adoption” and “childbearing” of homosexual men (male sex, according to with the terminology of the Holy Gospel) and homosexual women, as an end to the spiritual desolation brought about by the clamor of the New Order of Things.
A riot, which here and there for years methodically, hypocritically and with completely anti-Christian laws is establishing a unique tyranny in the history of the human race on all levels (economic, political, cultural, health, religious), but especially spiritual.
We recently heard the various opinions of the Greek society, even from representatives of the Greek Hierarchy about the “right” of free choice of man regarding sexual orientation. A “right” which in the past decades had been characterized as a psychopathological disorder by the international scientific community, and the other one and the other in the past Apostle Orthodox Church.
They simply hide from us their ultimate treacherous purpose: after they upgrade the infamous “cohabitation agreement” (which legally covers inheritance, insurance and other social rights between the parties) to a full marriage -with the gentle treatment of the Hierarchy-, they open the back door of adoption and adoption of children (the latter is carried out with the involvement of a surrogate mother)!!!
Fathers and brothers,
The defenders of the anti-church and anti-national stance on perversion behave arrogantly and arrogantly. On the contrary, the Orthodox Church does not take revenge, nor return insult for insult, mud for mud, violence for violence. But she does not tolerate anything foul, perverted and essentially profane, always confessing the Truth.
Members of the Greek Parliament,
Who told you that the Orthodox Church of our Triune God recognizes a “right” to perversion? Not only does it burn it, but it also cuts off – it excommunicates all the unrepentant guys who freely identify themselves as homosexuals, but also their patrons and promoters!
This is what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says through the mouth of the Apostle Paul in the letter to the Romans: “For their women changed their natural use into that which is after nature, and likewise the men who taught the natural use of their womanhood were burned in their appetites into each other, you built up the ugliness by working….” (Rom. chapter 1, verses 26-27). Not only does the Church mourn the perversion, not only does it have to ring the bells mournfully, because parties and parliamentarians were found to propose the legalization of “marriage” between homosexuals, but it also has to immediately excommunicate those who theoretically support homosexuality, whatever they live defiantly and unrepentantly as homosexuals, those who propagate homosexuality, those who ultimately want to sodomize Greek society…
The struggle of refusing to accept the proposed immunity bill is mainly spiritual and soul-saving. We refuse for reasons of Faith an additional anti-church and anti-national legislative extremism that tries to naturalize us in the system of the antichrist. We refuse to accept the further spiritual lobotomy of the Christian Greek Orthodox people.
We repeat: we have a unique choice as Orthodox Christians: to conform by obeying the will of the God-man Jesus Christ, and not of the people of the vain world of this age, which is for every person to be saved, after first coming to sincere repentance.
Christ came out victorious and to be victorious (Revelation, chapter VI, verse 2).
Fight the Good Fight and rejoice in Christ Jesus our Lord and God always.
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Άγιον Όρος: Επίθεση κατά των βουλευτών που θα ψηφίσουν το νομοσχέδιο για τους γάμους ομόφυλων
Στον χαιρετισμό τους οι μοναχοί σημειώνουν ότι με καθαρή συνείδηση αντιστέκονται στην «βδελυκτή απόφαση» και την «λαίλαπα της Νέας Τάξης Πραγμάτων». Μάλιστα, απευθυνόμενοι στους βουλευτές που θα ψηφίσουν το νομοσχέδιο, εξαπολύουν κεραυνούς:
«Βουλευτὲς τοῦ ἑλληνικοῦ κοινοβουλίου, ποιός σᾶς εἶπε, ὅτι ἡ Ὀρθόδοξη Ἐκκλησία τοῦ Τρισυποστάτου Θεοῦ ἡμῶν ἀναγνωρίζει «δικαίωμα» στὴ διαστροφή; Ὄχι μόνο τὸ καυτηριάζει, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀποκόπτει- ἀφορίζει ὅλους τοὺς ἀμετανόητους τύπους, ποὺ αὐτοπροσδιορίζονται ἐλευθέρα βουλήσει ὡς ὁμοφυλόφιλοι, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοὺς προστάτες καί προωθητές αὐτῶν!» σημειώνουν οι πατέρες του Αγίου Όρους και προσθέτουν μεταξύ άλλων:
«Ὄχι ἁπλῶς πενθεῖ ἡ Ἐκκλησία γιὰ τὴ διαστροφή, ὄχι μόνο ὀφείλει νὰ χτυπήση πένθιμα τὶς καμπάνες, γιατί βρέθηκαν κόμματα καὶ βουλευτές νὰ προτείνουν νομιμοποίηση «γάμου» μεταξὺ ὁμοφυλοφίλων, ἀλλὰ καὶ ὀφείλει νὰ ἀφορίση ἀμέσως ὅσους θεωρητικὰ ὑποστηρίζουν τὴν ὁμοφυλοφιλία, ὅσους ζοῦν προκλητικὰ καί ἀμετανόητα ὡς ὁμοφυλόφιλοι, ὅσους προπαγανδίζουν τὴν ὁμοφυλοφιλία, ὅσους θέλουν τελικά νὰ σοδομοποιήσουν τὴν ἑλληνικὴ κοινωνία…».
Αναλυτικά ο διαδικτυακός χαιρετισμός των Αγιορειτών Κελλιωτών Πατέρων:
Πατέρες καί ἀδελφοί,
Ἀπευθύνουμε τόν ἐν Χριστῷ χαιρετισμό μας στὴν Ὀρθόδοξη Σύναξη στήν πόλη τῶν Ἀθηνῶν, ὅπου ὁ Ἀπόστολος τῶν ἐθνῶν Παῦλος κήρυξε τὸν Λόγο τοῦ Θεοῦ, σύμφωνα μὲ τὸν ὁποῖον : «Τοὺς μὲν οὗν χρόνους τῆς ἀγνοίας ὑπεριδὼν ὁ Θεὸς τανὺν παραγγέλει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πᾶσι πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν» (Πράξ. Ἀποστ., κεφ.ΙΖ΄, στιχ.30).
Συναχθήκαμε, ἀγωνιζόμενοι τὸν Καλὸν Ἀγῶνα, γιὰ νὰ δηλώσουμε μὲ διαύγεια πνεύματος καί καθαρότητα συνείδησης τὴν παντελῆ ἀντίθεση καὶ τὴν σθεναρὴ ἀντίστασή μας στὴν βδελυκτὴ ἀπόφαση τῆς κάθε κυβέρνησης νὰ νομοθετήσει ὑπὲρ τοῦ «γάμου» «υἱοθεσίας» καὶ «τεκνοθεσίας» ὁμοφυλοφίλων ἀνδρῶν (ἀρσενοκοιτῶν, σύμφωνα μὲ τήν ὁρολογία τοῦ Ἱεροῦ Εὐαγγελίου) καί ὁμοφυλοφίλων γυναικῶν, ὡς ἄκρον ἄωτον τῆς πνευματικῆς ἐρημώσεως ποὺ ἐπιφέρει ἡ λαίλαπα τῆς Νέας Τάξης Πραγμάτων.
Μία λαίλαπα, ἡ ὁποία ἐδῶ καί χρόνια μεθοδικά, ὑποχθόνια καὶ μέ ἐξ ὁλοκλήρου ἀντιχριστιανικούς νόμους ἐγκαθιστᾷ μία μοναδικὴ στὴν ἱστορία τοῦ ἀνθρωπίνου γένους τυραννία σὲ ὅλα τὰ ἐπίπεδα ( οἰκονομικά, πολιτικά, πολιτιστικά, ὑγειονομικά, θρησκευτικά), μά κυρίως πνευματικά.
Ἀκούσαμε πρόσφατα τίς διάφορες ἀπόψεις τῆς ἑλληνικῆς κοινωνίας, ἀκόμη καὶ ἀπὸ ἐκπροσώπους τῆς Ἑλλαδικῆς Ἱεραρχίας περί τοῦ «δικαιώματος» ἐλεύθερης ἐπιλογῆς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὡς πρός τόν γενετήσιο προσανατολισμό. Ἕνα «δικαίωμα» τὸ ὁποῖο ἀφ’ ἑνὸς τὶς προηγούμενες δεκαετίες εἶχε χαρακτηριστεῖ ὡς ψυχοπαθολογική διαταραχή ἀπὸ τὴν διεθνῆ ἐπιστημονική κοινότητα, καὶ ἀφ’ ἑτέρου ὡς ἡ πιό εὐφάμαρτη καὶ φρικτὴ διαστροφὴ τοῦ μεταπτωτικοῦ ἀνθρώπου σύμφωνα μὲ τὴν Ἁγία Γραφὴ καὶ τοὺς Ἱεροὺς Κανόνες τῆς Μίας Ἁγίας Ἀποστολικῆς Ὀρθόδοξης Ἐκκλησίας.
Ἁπλὰ μᾶς ἀποκρύπτουν τὸν ἀπώτερο δόλιο σκοπὸ τους : ἀφοῦ ἀναβαθμίσουν τὸ περιβόητο «σύμφωνο ἐλεύθερης συμβίωσης» (τὸ ὁποῖο καλύπτει νομικῶς κληρονομικά, ἀσφαλιστικὰ καὶ λοιπὰ κοινωνικὰ δικαιώματα μεταξὺ τῶν συμβαλλομένων) σὲ πλήρη γάμο –μὲ τὴν ἤπια ἀντιμετώπιση τῆς Ἱεραρχίας-, ἀνοίγουν τὴν κερκόπορτα τῆς υἱοθεσίας καί τεκνοθεσίας τέκνων (τὸ δὲ τελευταῖο πραγματοποιεῖται μὲ τὴν ἐμπλοκὴ παρένθετης μητέρας)!!!
Πατέρες καί ἀδελφοί,
Οἱ ὑπερασπιστὲς τῆς ἐν λόγῳ ἀντιεκκλησιαστικῆς καὶ ἀντιεθνικῆς στάσεως ὑπὲρ τῆς διαστροφῆς συμπεριφέρονται ὑπεροπτικὰ καὶ ἀλλαζονικά. Ἀντιθέτως, ἡ Ὀρθόδοξη Ἐκκλησία δὲν ἐκδικεῖται, οὔτε ἀνταποδίδει ὕβρι στὴν ὕβρι, λάσπη στὴν λάσπη, βία στὴ βία. Ἀλλὰ καὶ δὲν ἀνέχεται πάνω της κάθετι βρωμερό, διεστραμμένο καὶ κατ’ οὐσίαν βέβηλο, ὁμολογῶντας πάντα τὴν Ἀλήθεια.
Βουλευτὲς τοῦ ἑλληνικοῦ κοινοβουλίου,
Ποιός σᾶς εἶπε, ὅτι ἡ Ὀρθόδοξη Ἐκκλησία τοῦ Τρισυποστάτου Θεοῦ ἡμῶν ἀναγνωρίζει «δικαίωμα» στὴ διαστροφή; Ὄχι μόνο τὸ καυτηριάζει, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀποκόπτει- ἀφορίζει ὅλους τοὺς ἀμετανόητους τύπους, ποὺ αὐτοπροσδιορίζονται ἐλευθέρα βουλήσει ὡς ὁμοφυλόφιλοι, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοὺς προστάτες καί προωθητές αὐτῶν!
Αὐτὸ καυτηριάζει τὸ Εὐαγγέλιο τοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ διὰ τοῦ στόματος τοῦ Ἀποστόλου Παύλου στὴν πρὸς Ρωμαίους ἐπιστολή: «αἵ τε γὰρ θήλειαι αὐτῶν μετήλλαξαν τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν εἰς τὴν παρὰ φύσιν, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ οἱ ἄρσενες ἀφέντες τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν τῆς θηλείας ἐξεκαύθησαν ἐν τῇ ὀρέξει αὐτῶν εἰς ἀλλήλους, ἄρσενες ἐν ἄρσεσι τὴν ἀσχημοσύνην κατεργαζόμενοι….» (Ρωμ.κεφ.Α΄, στιχ.26-27). Ὄχι ἁπλῶς πενθεῖ ἡ Ἐκκλησία γιὰ τὴ διαστροφή, ὄχι μόνο ὀφείλει νὰ χτυπήση πένθιμα τὶς καμπάνες, γιατί βρέθηκαν κόμματα καὶ βουλευτές νὰ προτείνουν νομιμοποίηση «γάμου» μεταξὺ ὁμοφυλοφίλων, ἀλλὰ καὶ ὀφείλει νὰ ἀφορίση ἀμέσως ὅσους θεωρητικὰ ὑποστηρίζουν τὴν ὁμοφυλοφιλία, ὅσους ζοῦν προκλητικὰ καί ἀμετανόητα ὡς ὁμοφυλόφιλοι, ὅσους προπαγανδίζουν τὴν ὁμοφυλοφιλία, ὅσους θέλουν τελικά νὰ σοδομοποιήσουν τὴν ἑλληνικὴ κοινωνία…..
Ὁ ἀγῶνας ἄρνησης ἀποδοχῆς τοῦ ἐπικειμένου νομοσχεδίου-ἀνοσιουργήματος εἶναι κυρίως πνευματικός καί ψυχοσωτήριος. Ἀρνούμαστε γιὰ λόγους Πίστεως ἑνὸς ἐπιπλέον ἀντιεκκλησιαστικοῦ καί ἀντιεθνικοῦ νομοθετικοῦ ἐκτρώματος ποὺ προσπαθεῖ νὰ μᾶς πολιτογραφήσει στὸ σύστημα τοῦ ἀντιχρίστου. Ἀρνούμαστε νὰ δεχθοῦμε τὴν περαιτέρω πνευματικὴ λοβοτομὴ τοῦ Χριστεπώνυμου Ἑλληνορθόδοξου λαοῦ.
Ἐπαναλαμβάνουμε: μία μοναδικὴ ἐπιλογὴ ἔχουμε ὡς Ὀρθόδοξοι Χριστιανοί: νὰ συμμορφωθοῦμε ὑπακούοντας στὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεανθρώπου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ ὄχι τῶν ἀνθρώπων τοῦ μάταιου κόσμου τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, τὸ ὁποῖο εἶναι νὰ σωθῇ κάθε ἄνθρωπος, ἀφοῦ πρῶτα ἔλθῃ σὲ εἰλικρινῆ μετάνοια.
Ὁ Χριστός ἐξῆλθε νικῶν καί ἵνα νικήση ( Ἀποκάλυψη, κεφ.ΣΤ΄, στιχ.2).
Ἀγωνίζεσθε τόν Καλόν Ἀγῶνα καί χαίρετε ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ Κυρίω καὶ Θεῷ ἡμῶν πάντοτε.
Axios to Athos! The spiritual center of Orthodoxy is speaking Truth to the Greek people.
It would be a huge scandal to allow for individuals who vote “yes” to still approach the chalice.
Hopefully by the time the 2027 elections roll around ND has split up and the pro-Greece, pro-Orthodoxy parties have grown and gained momentum.
They are speaking truth to all of us… The importance of Mount Athos and the monastics in general is paramount for the reason that unlike Laity which has to live in the world and succumb to its pressures and influences the monastics are shielding themselves from these influences and hence speak and confess the faith in a more unadulterated form which we all need to learn from… And that’s why we have higher expectations from all of our Hierarchs which for that reason they are mandated to be celibate and they should live like monks in order to be able to withstand the pressures of the devil puppeteered world… We hope the pedagogical slapping that Schismatophoros received in Greece will help him come to his senses…
Let’s see them Excommunicated, and let’s see an enforcement of that Excommunication, at least by some Metropolitans…that’ll be a good start.
Ieronymos is probably too “chicken” to do it, at least…
I don’t think formal excommunication is the solution, all of them are our brothers and sisters and while we should tell it to them like it is… We should always leave them space to repent, excommunicating someone who already doesn’t care about the Church and the Faith emboldens them even more making them feel like victims… Imagine the child mollestors and the baby killers, the slave traders and drug traffickers to pretend they are victims!
Entire Orthodox world applauds the valiant Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, Greece who spoke out the loudest against this secular zeitgeist invading peace of holy Athos.
May God protect our blessed monks from the endless disruption of tourists!
He is truly valiant! And also formally he is trained as a lawyer… So he has the courage to tell it like he sees it and feels it and also he cannot be taken for a ride by the “Theompaiktes” (those that pretend to serve God, promote unrepentant sinful behavior in the name of love… Yeah right! Like Schismatophoros does)
There is no doubt that the Orthodox church considers homosexuality a sin. The monks themselves are not clergy and they can’t excommunicate anyone. Only the synod can.
Having said that, Christ himself, as far as we know, never condemned homosexuality. Its not because homosexuality wasn’t known to Christ. The practice was condoned by the Greeks and Romans, whose culture was predominant in Judea at the time. Abortion was also very widely practiced. Christ never mentioned abortion either. Saint Paul leaves no doubt that it is a sinful practice and St Paul himself, even though a Jew, was raised in the Hellenic culture and spoke and wrote Greek as a first language. And I am sure that he had read the Greek philosophers, because many of his teachings are based on philosophical ideas prevalent at the time.
We need to consider two things, when we voice our opposition to homosexuality. If homosexuality is a choice, then, it is a sin. If it is a sin that involves adults only, then, it is against the sinner’s soul and he would have to give his account to his maker when he meets him. If its not a choice and its something people are born with, such as blue eyes or brown hair, which is what science has concluded, then we can’t judge them.
Christ called the pharisees hypocrites, as a matter of fact, the word hypocrites is used by Christ more than 40 times, because they condemned others’ sins, without looking at their own. Let’s not follow the pharisees example, but Christ’s, love everyone and not condemn anyone, unless we walk in his shoes.
I am sure you will get many responses to these heretic ideas. I am not a theologian by profession – but others are and they will surely abswer. But I will tell you one thing that we all remember since our youth near the Church: that Christ blessed the marriage between a man and a woman (in Cana) and by doping so he declared the Faith.
We are not going to establish “religious courts”, like the Catholics had done in the Medieval times, to find out who “chose” homosexuality and who did not. We consider it a sin – period. We welcome everyone in the Church – we are all sinners. But we are not going to ridicule our Faith by trying to find out about choice.
All monotheistic religions consider it a sin. Why don’t you propose such a daring thoughts to Muslims or Orthodox Jews and see how long you will be alive?
I live in America, a Western nation that has tolerance written into its constitution, including free speech . Muslims and Orthodox Jews that live in America, have to abide by our constitution. Their faith doesn’t condone homosexuality and for sure, no one can change that. But, the society is secular. We worry about ourselves and let others do whatever they feel is for them, as long as no one gets hurt. As a matter of fact, there’s more opposition by Christians, towards gays, than by Moslem or Jews, in America.
If you meant that I should go to a Moslem country and try to change them, of course I wouldn’t. Why should I? I’m an American citizen. I have no business telling anyone else what to do.
BTW, thank you for tolerating my positions, which run counter to most of your readers’. It would be boring for everyone on Helleniscope, if there were no differences in opinion.
I meant that we in our “tolerant “America”, while we obey the constitution (and actually because we obey the Constitution) we should not allow any minority – and it is a small minority impose its will on all of us by dominating as they do the educational system. Tolerance is one thing and “dictatorship of the minority is another”. In Muslim countries these things are not allowed – but we also do not see the American Left, the liberals, and I have to assume you are part of it, criticize these Muslim countries. Instead they are fantasizing about how “exotic” these countries are!! Do you know how this process started? If you do not please read Edward Said’s “Orientalism” (1978). It explains how the Western Left has romanticized Islam and managed to make it innocent of all its questionable dogmas and history.
This is a great conversation. There hasn’t been a chance to criticize Muslim countries on Helleniscope. At least as long as I’ve been on here, any way.. I am certainly no fan of them. I have never visited any, except Turkey for a day, when I was in Chios. But I can assure you, that I dont consider myself liberal. I just disagree with intolerance. And I believe that we should be against intolerance, no matter where it comes from.
My kids are grown up, so I dont know how they impose their ideas in schools. I know school teachers and they have not complained of any forced indoctrination by gays. And I live in N.J. a blue state and you are in N.Y. also a blue state. Can you please cite a neutral source, exposing any forced indoctrination? I will contact my congressman and senators, if that’s the case and ask them to look into it. Which of course is something that we should all do, when anything is imposed on us by any minority
Having said that, the “Moms for Freedom” organization in Florida, ground zero of the movement against forced school indoctrination, was exposed for its husband and wife leadership team of engaging in threesome sex and the husband was accused of rape. Another one in Ohio was charged with providing alcohol to minors and having parties in her basement, that included violence.
This is what Christ was talking about when He warned us to not “cast the first stone”. These Super Christians are fanaticizing people, while they are registering as non profit and making huge amounts in salaries.
The Constitution also institutes freedom of religion and what’s more there is freedom of association… So nobody can shove anything on anyone… However the GOA for secular purposes has a mandate… To conform to the Holy Scriptures, the Holy Tradition and Holy Canons… If you want a religion that lauds fudgepacking then you have to find somewhere else to preach that. Our Church is not for you. The Church is not for everyone and actually very few will remain faithful it sounds you are already on your way out… The Church is not here to please the evils and the sinful of the world but to give them respite, refuge and liberation from the shackles of sin… Understood?
Lambros is in serious DELUSION…
Truth is, Christ Jesus condemned ALL sexual deviancy – He declared divorce was allowed in case of adultery;
He told the adulteress to
“Go And Sin No More.”
He didn’t say to the crowd wanting to stone her, it’s her free will to be promiscuous. He taught Forgiveness but at same time, he taught the Law.
He also spoke out against pedophiles; while the children gathered round Jesus, the Lord said:
“But whoso shall offends one of these little ones, which believe me, it were better for him, a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were drowned in depth of the sea.”
Nowhere in Gospels does Jesus attend a “gay wedding” – Nowhere in holy Scripture or Philokalia or testimony of a hundred Saints is found any praise or acceptance of homosexuality – instead it’s condemned repeatedly as abomination to holiness.
Jesus the Christ did not destroy the religion of His forebears, like Moses;
Instead, He gave it greater depth and breadth – He stressed Love…
A spiritual master knows that most human beings will be incapable of following His more advanced, esoteric teachings, but does this mean He should neglect the few who are capable and eager to advance?
The “few” are the serious faithful who aren’t influenced by secular world.
Why should Christ and Orthodoxy lower the bar at the level of the weakest and most limited?
I have to answer this, even though it is so vomit inducing, that it would make anyone sick. Nick, please, publish it, or send it to her personally.
I cannot publish such language. If you want to reply please be polite and avoid foul language.
Nick. This woman is spreading rumors about me and calling me names. I never get personal with anyone, unless they get personal with me. She has to be put in her place. Exchanging ideas is good for society. But personal attacks should be off limit. I will rewrite a reply
Hey Nick. today’s Kathimerini English section, published a survey, showing that a majority of Greeks have a favorable view of the US and would like to see Biden win the election.
Do you really believe Papahelas’ newspaper in any political analysis? P-lease… His connection to the “Embassy” are well verified…. Soon he is going to make a poll saying that Putin has 0% approval rating in Greece, when for decades it has been verified again and again that he is the most favorably viewed foreign (or domestic!!) leader with approval over 70%. But please send me the link.
Zoey.
What I said is that we need to be tolerant of others. If someone wants to sin, its their soul. What choice is there? How will you stop them? By beating them up, by taking them to court? What means will you use because someone lives a life style that you consider sinful? I urge you to confront a gay person and tell them how sinful they are, and see what happens. And if they don’t follow your orders, then call them names. I know you will be in the newspapers. I can’t wait
I gather you are one of those super Christians, who want to call out others’ sins, but not their own. I see on facebook alone, that you have committed plenty of them. And my attorney, will unearth more and you will be exposed. As for Christ, having permitted divorce, where do you see that? Just because you are divorced and I don’t blame your husband for divorcing you, doesn’t make you any better than anyone else. You’re casting stones, while you are the greater sinner.
Lambros – I removed her insult. Zoey – please keep it clean.
We have no space in this small group for personal attacks. Or for legal threats. TO ALL OF YOU: IF YOU WANT ME TO KEEP THE COMMENTS ACTIVE PLEASE MONITOR YOURSELVES. I CANNOT BE THE BABYSITTER HERE.
Nick. Please, remove the part where she calls me queer. Its on the first paragraph .Thank you.
I already did two hours ago…
Haha FYI:
I’m Not on Facebook!
and I’ve never been divorced…
How ridiculous is paranoid Lambros?
For Helleniscope sake:
I’m sorry for writing about Lambros
Lambros,
By using your own logic, you should be especially tolerant of Zoey, should you not? She is opposed to your view, is she not? Of course I’m being a bit facetious; and I don’t want you silenced. I only comment here because I am tired of hearing the tolerance ideal thrown around on most debates. The tolerance ideal is nonsense as it is used in most online dialogs. I am not tolerant of sin, crimes, and a long, long list of things that I deem bad for mankind. I have ABSOLUTELY NO TOLERANCE for many things. None of us do. I say that the tolerance ideal as it is used by many is truly for the mentally damaged. I am not attacking Lambros as a person, as a fellow human being. In this way I am not only tolerant of him, but I love him as our Lord and Savior has commanded. However, I am savagely intolerant of any and all ideas that attack our Orthodox faith.
ZOEY WHETHER IT IS LAMBROS, MISTOTAKIS, BIDEN, EVANGELCAL LAWMAKERS OF TEH U.S CONGRESS , EPI , BART, THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH OF AMERICA WHO PROMOTE THEIR EXCEPTIONAL ADHERENCE TO THE LAWS OF GOD AND MEN BY PROMOTING THEMSELVES AS THE CARETAKERS OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF THE CITZENS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD INCLUDING GAYS AND TRANS, AND ENTITLED TO WAGE ENDLESS WARS THRUOUT THE WORLD TO SAVE THEM!!!
BUT, DO NOT FOOL GOD OR THE MONKS OF MOUNT ATHOS…
HEPOCRITES
“ ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men”
jESUS
Lambro,
At least you cleared up a very important point in this thread. Your statements are totally aligned with a classic Protestant theological angle & argument. It doesn’t matter when or where you started adopting this angle, but the technical term for it is “sola scriptura”. A quick glance online (wikipedia) yields the following definition:
“Sola scriptura
Sola scriptura is a Christian theological doctrine held by most Protestant Christian denominations, in particular the Lutheran and Reformed traditions, that posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice. The Catholic Church considers it heterodox and generally the Orthodox churches consider it to be contrary to the phronema of the Church….” (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura)
At least you are honest, and now we understand your baseline phronema, so we can structure our responses accordingly.
Aristotle once pointed out the association between the theory of axioms, debate & rhetoric… An axiom is something that is commonly accepted as being true, but which cannot be “proven” in an immediate, tangible manner. When two parties debate, they have to agree on certain axioms, otherwise the debate will go in circles. For example, this is why a discussion between an atheist and a believer never goes anywhere, because the axiom “God exists” is not held to be true by both parties.
In this case, “sola scriptura” is an “axiom” that both parties will never agree upon as being true, (it will lead a discussion between a Protestant mindset and an Orthodox mindset into a circular argument), because Orthodox Tradition has not only accepted Patristic tradition from day 1, but it has also accepted verbatim the Gospel lesson that stated “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written” (John 21:25).
In your statements above, you seek “written evidence” of “only” Jesus’s statements on this matter, which is a classic “sola scriptura” argument. Sola scriptura ironically & habitually excludes and ignores the words in John 21:25, because it doesn’t actually “fit the Protestant narrative” in situations like this…
So if only a fraction of Jesus’s words and actions were written, how can you be so sure that Jesus did NOT say something on this topic? Thus, the tables are turned, and you can’t answer that question…
Either way, that’s not the main point here, because based on Aristotle’s philosophical deduction above, this will immediately become a circular argument…the main point is this…the Apostles were witnesses of Jesus’s teachings, or at least they spoke directly to witnesses, and had access to information that we certainly don’t. Why does the Protestant phronema selectively dismiss the Apostles’ words as being valid in this instance (because it wasn’t Jesus, but St. Paul?), even though they wrote very clearly about this topic, and the Apostle Paul used the word αρσενοκοιται in a very specific statement about who exactly will NOT be inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven, that is worth reading carefully and understanding.
This means that secular “tolerance” and spiritual “tolerance” don’t always coincide. That’s why there is a parable in the Gospels about goats and sheep, too…that’s why in the parable of Judgement day, those on the left are not “tolerated” by Jesus himself, despite the fact that they claimed that they did things in “His name”…
And by the way, your opening statement about monks / priesthood / and Synod are extremely off track from the facts. You may want to do your research again and revise your comments. Somewhere between 10-20% of Athonite monks are also priests / deacons, with a large number being in the “κελια”, the hermitages outside the main monasteries. Also, individual bishops are free to Excommunicate any lay person or prime minister that crosses a line (Καντιωτης famously did this to the movie producer Aggelopoulos in the 1980s)…they don’t need a Synod, but a Synod is definitely required to declare another bishop or Church heretical…there’s a reason why the prayers at an Orthodox funeral (if you’ve ever paid attention) include a prayer to forgive any “αρα υπο ιερεως η αρχιερεως”…
Markos
Let me just say, that your post is very well written and researched. It is based on facts and very well worded. Which is what should be the norm, but, unfortunately, it is not.
If you paid attention to my post, I dont disregard St Paul’s condemnation of homosexual relations. As a matter of fact, I wrote about them prominently. And I underlined, that Christ never condemned homosexuality, and I added “as far as I know”
I read the bible but I am not a theologian. But, the bible is not made for theologians only, but for common people to understand.
Consequently, you assertion that I follow the protestant line of thinking, that the bible is the only source of our faith, is mistaken. Obviously, you jumped the gun and proven that you try to fit people into your own criteria, instead of comprehending what they say. The Orthodox church is based on the Bible and the Apostolic tradition.
As for a 10-20% of monks being clerics, I take your word for it and I dont argue the point. The rules for excommunication are obscure and I have not studied them, but, thankfully, are not wielded as easily as they were in previous years. Excommunicating someone in today’s world is counter productive and hurts the cleric who employes it, much more than the person that is the target. The fact that Kantiotis excommunicated or anathematized, not sure if its the same thing, an artist and filmmaker, who’s films I dont care for, is wrong.
The thrust of my argument was not to attempt to sway the church in favor of legalizing same sex unions. I know it won’t happen and it is as it should be. After all, “Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:18. And I agree with that.
My argument is not to normalize same sex unions, or for anyone to accept them, if they are against the idea.
My argument is that a country’s laws do NOT and should NOT be based on a certain faith. After all, Christ said that “His kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. This is one of the best attributes of Christianity. Theocracy would be what the interpreter of faith book considered was proper. Be it the bible, or the Quran, or Kama Sutra, or whatever else is considered God given. And that would make a strongman the wielder of the truth as he saw it and would give him unlimited powers. Unlimited power leads to tyranny.
Rather, the way laws are adopted, by the majority, even if that majority is slim, is the only, but sometimes messy way of running a country.
If the laws of the country adopt same sex unions, we don’t have to like them, live with them, attend such unions or make friendships of people that do. We have the freedom of conscience, to do as our moral compass directs. And of course, we have no right to disregard the laws, by attacking physically or in other ways anyone who adheres to those ideas. If we consider it same sex unions as sin, let the sinner give his account to his maker. Let’s look after our own sins.
What I think is happening though, with all those super Christians, such as Zoey or Michael on these posts, is that homosexuality is easy to condemn. After all, most of us are heterosexual. Our faith teaches us that there are many sins and NO ONE is sinless. Before we condemn others as sinners, let’s make sure that we are without sin. All sins are the same in the eyes of God.
Nick, thank you for publishing this essay
Actually Lambros nobody is either heterosexual or homosexual… Even if they publish their sexual life how do you know they won’t change practice in the future? So these labels are bogus to begin with… Remember when there were sodomy laws and these were repealed on the basis that it’s not the Government’s business the private life of the sovereign citizens? That was correct but you gotta stay consistent… And continue the same rationale… The government should stop using private lifestyle labeling and favoring that’s undemocratic and discriminatory. And let me finish with a last point: the ban on the discriminatory preferential treatment of a specific lifestyle label is NOT a religious debate it’s a secular debate foremost. Sure religions and the Churches are on the right side of the issue but this doesn’t make their stance valid by religious edict or fatwa… But because Religions and kudos to them serve humanity and not the enemies of humanity. So stop degrading the criticism of the current homosexual abominations as simply “religious” bias. As humanity we have to obey natural law which says homosexuals cannot procreate therefore it’s Nonsensical to call their haphazard liaisons as “marriage” or allowing them to buy and sell children. Ok?
I recall the back and forth between Kantiotis and Aggelopoulos. I watched it on live TV back in the day. The latter was filming an inappropriate scene in Florina (Kantiotis’ Metropolis), a scene involving a child. Kantiotis objected to this particular scene when he was informed about it, warned Aggelopoulos to not dare film that scene in his jurisdiction, and even pull it out of the film, or face Excommunication. Aggelopoulos made dismissive and arrogant replies on TV, and the rest is history.
I don’t necessarily agree with you that this particular Excommunication is “wrong” as you state, given the specific details of the circumstance. We need more voices like Kantiotis today, because Greek politicians continue to pass corrupt laws that the majority of the people don’t agree with while the Church remains silent. That is definitely wrong, (to impose laws that the people don’t agree with), and I hope you agree with that at least.
Markos
I’m glad you reread my post and you agree that you jumped the gun and put words in my post that I never wrote.
As for Kantiotis, I have never watched any of Angelopoulos films, or most Greeks films in general. They are boring, too artsy and low budget. So, I can’t judge what the issue was about.
Again, you misread my post. That’s really getting to be the norm with too many people. I was hoping you wouldn’t be one of those also.
I NEVER said anything about the particular Kantiotis excommunication. What I said was that this was a practice that was much feared in the past, and it was abused by clerics. Now, no one really cares if they’re excommunicated and it actually hurt the cleric and the church, and makes a hero out of the subject of excommunication.
For instance, many times Helleniscope has been critical of the patriarchate and Elpidoforos. Sometimes I would argue a bit undeserved. As far as I know, no excommunication has been imposed.
As for the state passing unpopular laws, -not corrupt as you refer to them-, corruption is another subject, the state has the mandate to lead. It does not and should not be held hostage to passing fads or whims of the citizens. The citizens have the right to reward or reject the ruling party every four years.
Sorry. I dont agree with you much at all.
Markos I would suggest to let things cool off a bit…
Homosexuality is a sin (actually I don’t know of any religion which doesn’t consider it a sin and an abomination). It’s an acquired sickness of the mind. I mean people are free to live how they like PROVIDED they don’t impose on others… And come to think of it even if someone claims they are gay how do we know? We don’t, in other words the label is bogus in its own right.
YES! May It Be Blessed —
that’s what monks and nuns say on every problem. The rabid left is demon of the secular world we must fight, the way advanced monastics fight demons who become visible out of thin air!
In judgement i have come into the world ..so that the Blind Can Wee, and those who can see…will go blind .Jesus!
Hey Lambros …Get over it ….you ae seeing God’s new world order , which, is not exactly that of the New and Old Global world order of the U.S, Israel and EU/nato criminal enterprise which violates both mans and Gods laws to oppress humanity and to cannibalize the populist of God world to monopolize all the money and power of the world to allow “White Supremacist religious tribes and mobsters to rule the world! In America and Europe ! Thanks to the Jewish and Evangelical Zionist of America and Israel their is no separation of Church from the corrupt Media and Satanic State…and therefore God demands that the Orthodox and Catholic churches ..the original churches of Christ , meet their obligation to him ..and bring truth to 2.6 billon Christians , not by Degenerate non believers of God parading thru the halls of the U.s and EU parliament and member colonies of Europe like Greece! to enforce the laws of God , and purge all members of the governments of America , Greece. and Nato Governments who have aided and abetted , not only the promotion of Heinous crimes and violation of Gods laws in promoting lifestyles contradicting fundamental laws of God , but commiting Heinous crimes and violations of the human and religiousd freedom of the Clergy, Monks , Nuuns staff and members of the Ukrainian Orthodox church , and the mass slaughter of Orthodox and Cahtolic christians and muslims of the people of Palestine! In other words , Lambros…the response to our prayers has been answered … God no longer will tolerate his churches, using their feeble adherence to remaining silent to State Affairs , that no longer enforce any laws of God or man to commit heinous rimes on the world ! To give you another example … today a New Jersey Senator approved 60 billion dollars more to aid and abett attrocites being committed by Jewish Zionist Regimes of Ukraine and Israel! Resolution are pending in Greek Orthodox churches ..which will do exactly what the monk of Mt.Athos are doing …demanding that all Orthodox Christians of New Jersey condemn all U.S congressman for violating the l;aw of God. in supporting Zelensky , Biden, and Netanyahue …and request that all N.J. senators and congressmen voting to provide Ukraine and Israel with more blood money of Orthodox Christians be voted out of office and face criminal prosecution for violating the laws of God !
And quess what , Lambros… “The Influence Peddlers o Satan” ..are no match for the “Influence Peddlers of the laws of Christianity and God ” These lawmakers of God have a “78% approval rating, while the lawmaker of the U.S congress …have only a 6% approval rating ! And Lambros ..now you can see… and the consequences of remaining blind ..will get you no Passport to Heaven!
Nick, what are your thoughts on this:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Greece has released what amounts to a strategic plan for diaspora Greeks:
https://www.mfa.gr/images/docs/2024/strategic_plan.pdf
As it pertains to Orthodoxy, here are some points:
“”Point #4: Maintaining and strengthening ties with the ecclesiastical institutions of Orthodoxy as the main cohesive factor of the metropolitan center – Homogeneity.””
“”Care for the ecclesiastical matters of the Greeks in
abroad and actions for the development of its ties
of Orthodoxy among the Immigrants through Orthodoxy,
as a national and spiritual factor.””
“”1. Maintenance, development and expansion of its activity
Apodimos Kliros, of the Orthodox Theological Schools,
of ecclesiastical Centers and Schools, Institutions and
Associations located abroad.
2. Promotion of cooperation between its Church
of Greece and the Greek Orthodox Churches abroad
and between the last and the Supreme Theological
Schools in Greece.
3. Encouraging and supporting the use of the Greek language in
Divine Liturgy through the development of partnerships with Greek
Universities and institutions.””
There is zero mention of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and given that all diaspora Greeks are under the EP, it makes you wonder if there are plans to move the EP Eparchies under the Church of Greece proper?
This could very well explain why so many Greek politicians have been meeting with Bart & Elpi lately. Given the insane attrition that these eparchies, specifically GOARCH, have experienced under both Bart & Elpi, maybe the Greek government (whether good or bad), is forcing Bart’s hand and moving the eparchies under the Church of Greece.
Though I seriously doubt the Greek government has good/holy/spiritual intentions for this, the Church of Greece is much more solid spiritually than the EP and it would open the door for much better candidates for the episcopacy.
I will post and comment on time. Bu I am naturally suspicious of any invpolvent of the Greek government in the diaspora affairs – much more in religious/church matters. Because the Greek government is notoriouly corrup[t and answers faithfully to the directions of the Globalists.
Michael 1 is damn right –
get over it Lambros!
You didn’t even read Zoey’s excellent reply on Jesus condemning sexual immorality —
you liberals obfuscate truth by making everything about yourself
hank You Helleniscope and Markos for Posting this remarkable article, in the end …the dominant Religious Cult . Anglo Protestant/Evangelical/Mormon/puritan Satanic Cult have been responsible for the genocide and ethnic cleaning of Native Indians of America, and now aiding and Abetting the other chose people of God ..the Jewish Zionist of Israel ..to do what they did to the Indian Population, put them on reservation and take over there lands, and then finally genocide them…all when they resist their oppression all in the name of God! But having completed that …they in 1950 …This Religious cult took advantage of world decimated by wars thruout the world , and opportunistically, Annexed the entire world and proclaimed that the Chosen People of America ,would replace God , and now become the Saviors of the world, and only the “Protestant dominant population of America and England can rule the world ..and protect the Human Rights and Freedoms of the entire world , even if they had to hang , like the Salem Witches were done ….to save the world ! And the rest is history, Korea , Vietnam, Granada, Yugoslavia, libya, Syria, Afganistan, Yemen, iraq, Cuba , iran, and of course they have taken over the lands and water of Greece and Most of the EU/Nato governments, but not people! It is estimated that 22 million foreign citizens have been killed by the Ruling Evangelical representatives of the U.S Congress since WW2 in 31 interventions and undeclared wars , and forget about blaming Biden , the only common denominator to these homicides for decades ..are the Evangelical dominate members of the ruling Republican and democratic parties, all because these fanatic think their entitled to do this , because they keep telling themselves …only they are pure and righteous servants of God, like their Jewish Zionist brothers in Israel and Ukraine!
God is here and he has done his job again , he has provided all the evidence to identify team Anti Christ and Anti Orthodox Christians who do not spread democracy or Human rights , only death and destruction ! When in 1947 ,the Evangelicals began their Witch hunt of the world … We were all warned what to look out for ….
In the midst of all his seeming love for humanity and his glib talk of freedom and equality, he will have one great secret which he will tell to no one; he will not believe in God. And because his religion will be brotherhood without the fatherhood of God, he will deceive even the elect.The greatest trick the anti-Christ will pull will be to convince men he is the savior of the world instead of its destroyer
Like the devil, whose trademark signature is to twist the truth to sell sin, so the anti-Christ, according to Sheen, will twist the minds of men to make them believe he is the “Great Humanitarian” who will “talk peace, prosperity and plenty.”
The Venerable Bishop Fulton j. Sheehan
The Anti -Christ..1947
The Jewish and Evangelical lawmakers …have chosen Barabas and Zelensky…Thieves and Murderers over the Prince of Peace …Christ! And damage they will do ..to innocent Jews and Christians thruout the world .is unforgivable even by God !
Sir G.
I did read her article. And if you read her other post, of how much she loves Trump, a sexually immoral man, you will see the depth of her hypocrisy. To her and you, obviously, sexual immorality is what you disapprove of. Well, that’s not how it works.
Lambros – if we go down that road there will never be an end… Trying to find morality among political men is futile… Better to think like Chinese leader Mao Zedong who famously said (about communism and capitalism) “Black cat, white cat, I don’t care as long as it catches the mice”… Such is the case for Trump, who by the way is much more “moral” than JFK or Bill Clinton – no matter how you measure it… And he also catches a lot of mice…
TO ALL OF YOU: I am not playing the babysitter here.. Behave yourselves…
Nick. My criticism is not directed at Trump and I agree that Clinton and JFK were just as immoral. My criticism is directed at Zoey, for critiquing only what she considers immoral. You know she attacked me personally. I wouldn’t care how much of a hypocrite she is and I would allow her to have her opinion. But, she is so transparently hypocritical that she deserves to be called out.
Lambros, let’s move on… Zoey knows what we all know, that when we select a politician we do not select a saint, but someone who catches mice. Let’s leave it at that.
No, no, no… Not so easy… First of all Clinton’s corruption and immorality doesn’t compare with any of the others… The big difference with Trump is that he doesn’t preach morality, doesn’t point fingers and he did the most good without himself being ideologically a conservative or a practicing Christian (he, like any of those that belong to Schismatic and Heretic pseudo Christian Vatican it’s or Protestant denominations cannot honestly be called Christians, but I digress)… Clinton instead of being honest about her corruption and try to do her best she became lazy and started moralizing! Who? Hitlary Clinton… The in prosecuted fell on Hitlary, the Clinton Foundation corruption Hitlary, the Epstein paedophile island Hitlary, the Russia Collusion Hitlary… Please…
PLEASE LAMBROS ..i KNOW THIS PAINFUL FOR A “TNH’ POSTER CHILD , BECAUSE YOU ARE USED TO POSTING IN TNH ..WHERE COLUMNIST LIKE IN-HOUSE STATE DEPARTMENT PROPAGANDA MACHINE PATRICK THEROS.CAN SPREAD THEIR ANTI RUSSIAN , ANTI -TRUMP AND PRO BIDEN , PRO UKRAINE , PRO iSRAEL PRO EU/nATO EVEN PROMOTING TH E IDEA OF GETTING TURKEY APPROVED BY THE EU , WITH THE KNOWLEDGE TJAT LETTER TO THE EDITORS AND POST WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY IN TNH WHICH EXPOSE YOUR DISTORTED VIEWS AND HYPOCRACIES ! Yet, i hope you continue to post your narrative , because “what would Captain Hook be without Peter Pan !”
Oooooh Lambros! Listen to you! There is sexual immorality when it comes to Trump huh! But not when it comes to homosexuals!!! What happened to the Schismatophorian “love” and “acceptance”! Hahaha… Interesting… Double standards and pharisaic hypocrisy… It’s a good thing you let your hypocrisy out in the open now start dissecting it in order to eradicate it…
As Trump would say:
Lefty Lambros forgot to take his Meds! Enough whining –
Zoey apologized
I can’t believe the childishness on this thread. As expected the interloper is another leftist.