ΕΑΝ ΠΡΟΤΙΜΑΤΕ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ ΠΑΤΗΣΤΕ ΤΗ ΣΗΜΑΙΑ ΣΤΟ ΚΑΤΩ ΜΕΡΟΣ ΤΗΣ ΟΘΟΝΗΣ

About 900–1,000 demonstrators sang the Greek National Anthem and then erupted in a chant: “Get the Turks Out of Our Church!!” as Bishop Athenagoras tried in vain to control the rage, mainly caused by the ineptitude and poor choices of GOARCH, especially since Elpidophoros took office in 2019.  THE FIRST VICTORY WAS ACHIEVED: THE VOTE ON THE GOARCH PROPOSAL WAS POSTPONED FOR NEXT WEEK… FROM WHAT WE HEAR, YOU CAN COUNT ON ONE MORE DEMONSTRATION – POSSIBLY THIS TIME OUTSIDE 79TH STREET!!

Here is the defining moment of yesterday’s rally – AFTER MINUTE 4’… The rally received publicity from CBS2 NY local news – check the video at the bottom of this post.

By Nick Stamatakis

We could see the signs of panic in the GOARCH leadership emerging over the last 48 hours. First, they tried to muddy the waters with a half-baked press conference yesterday afternoon. Then came a series of “explanatory” announcements that explained nothing, only making their effort to grab parish property even clearer. When all else failed, they suddenly scheduled a liturgy (!!) where none had been planned… Unbelievable “Christ Merchants” and manipulators!! And they received the proper response from the dynamic rally: after the Greek National Anthem came the resounding cry — “Get the Turks out of our Church!!”

The people began gathering around 5:45–6:00 PM, while police had already closed the street outside St. Demetrios. After a hastily arranged and performed “paraclesis,” Bishop Athenagoras came out to the street to address the hundreds of demonstrators. He asked them to come inside the church to discuss the issues. He was loudly booed, and no one entered the church for the next hour.

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NOTE ON ATHENAGORAS #1. First, it was at least inappropriate — and probably sacrilegious — to propose discussing such issues within the church. Show some respect for the sacredness of the place! As we will see, when a small portion of the demonstrators entered the church an hour later, grave accusations were raised within the sanctuary regarding financial transactions, in the presence of Elaine Allen (GOARCH CFO) and attorney Mr. Tsougarakis. Is the church the place for such talk? Shameful!

NOTE ON ATHENAGORAS #2.
If you wanted to be accepted and listened to by the people — and also be perceived as a faithful Christian — you should have begun your written statement and your address to the demonstrators with a sincere Christian apology for your own mistakes (for settling a lawsuit over your unlawful actions for $150,000 — which the Parish paid, instead of GOARCH). Why should the Parish bear the cost of your grave ineptitude?

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But here is what Athinagoras did: after trying to manipulate the demonstrators with the “paraclesis” and failing to draw them into the church, he used the church’s loudspeakers to overwhelm them with his hollow messages. Some demonstrators had megaphones ready to use, but police did not allow them, citing the need for a special permit. Eventually, under pressure from the crowd, the police forced Bishop Athinagoras to stop using the church speakers and return inside. But not before he told demonstrators that “he is not a Turk,” adding that his father never allowed Turkish to be spoken at home when he was growing up!

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NOTE ON ATHENAGORAS #3: Are you really so tone-deaf that you don’t understand what the demonstrators meant by “Get the Turks out of our Church”? Nobody doubts that you are “Greek.” Nobody doubts that Elpidophoros and Bartholomew are “Greek.” But we have a long list of reasons to accuse you of serving the interests of Turkey and Sultan Erdoğan. Would you like me to go down that list — the one Helleniscope has reported a hundred times? Yes, you are “Greek,” but you are sold to Turkish interests. Your soul is Turkish — είσαστε Τουρκόψυχοι!! AND YOU AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE “PHANAR GANG OF THIEVES” APPLY THE SAME PLAN FOR STEALING THE PARISH PROPERTIES NOT ONLY IN AMERICA BUT ALSO IN AUSTRALIA – AT THE SAME TIME DESTROYING THE HELLENIC DIASPORA!!

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NOTE ON FATHER VILLIS (District Chancellor): I have never seen a colder, stone-faced expression in any of the GOA priests or hierarchs than the expression of Fr. Villis yesterday.  Father Villis was next to Athenagoras almost all the time yesterday, but (at least I) did not hear him say one word.  What credibility could he have after the huge heretic debacle of accepting a blessing from a rabbi?

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Later, a small group of demonstrators entered the church, along with several “attendees” whom no one in the community recognized — raising serious suspicions. There, Athenagoras tried to explain the inexplicable and deflect all responsibility from GOARCH. Here is a video:

Athenagoras DID NOT address the duties and responsibilities of GOARCH. Here is a short list:

  • For the past six years, AB Elpidophoros has demonstrated a total lack of preparedness and ineptitude in serving in America, the main problem of our time being dependence on Constantinople. He has fired countless worthy and educated Parish Council members. Athenagoras tried to deceive the audience by focusing only on recent firings. Elpidophoros has repeatedly fired many PC members without providing serious reasoning.

  • For his first two to three years, Elpidophoros unquestioningly supported his “enthronement donor,” Astoria strongman and community exploiter of four decades, Nick Andriotis. Andriotis’s last “achievement” was to sell the Wantagh Building — donated by Dr. Tambakis and producing significant income — for the same price it was originally acquired for ($700,000), despite major renovations and a very hot real estate market! The parish lost $110,000 in annual income — and someone pocketed the difference. Did GOARCH act? No!

  • The main culprit in today’s disaster is Nektarios Papazafiropoulos (Presiding Priest in Astoria 2011–2021, now Bishop). It was his idea to build on the land across the church, and he inflated the costs by millions of dollars. His arrogance, egotism, and incompetence were staggering. Despite being unworthy — as proven in the Babylon Parish, where he “served” before coming to Astoria, from which he was effectively removed due to his ineptitude — he still aspired to become a bishop. And he achieved it, thanks to Elpidophoros. We can only imagine how.

I will stop here… If you want to know the complete history of the disaster, you can go back to 2020 and read Helleniscope’s classic account, “The Unholy Alliance in the GOA to Keep the Failing Status Quo,” which has gathered over 10,000 views and is considered the “reference article” for the community’s troubles.

ATHENAGORAS AND ELAINE ALLEN ARE CONFRONTED BY ASPROGERAKAS

The former Parish Treasurer, Mr. Asprogerakas — who was fired twice by the Archbishop — at some point entered the church and confronted Bishop Athenagoras about these issues, especially the Dr. Tambakis donation and Fr. Nektarios Papazafiropoulos’s responsibility, who rightly earned the nickname “INEPT.” Remarkably, Mr. Asprogerakas confronted Mrs. Elaine Allen, who was sitting in the pews, quoting her about the building across from the church: “Weren’t you, Mrs. Allen, the one who told us we didn’t have the money to build this building?”

To her credit, Mrs. Allen publicly admitted this in front of Athenagoras! But Athenagoras, acting like a snake once again, cut off the discussion — nearly accusing Mr. Asprogerakas of making it a “personal issue with Nektarios” — instead of letting him reach the obvious question – as I imagine: Why was Mr. ‘Inept’ Nektarios rewarded instead of being punished?

It was a shameful performance by Athenagoras, worthy of the most hypocritical Byzantine traditions… He had to “protect” the other member of “The Phanar Gang of Thieves”, Bishop Nektarios... Shame on you, Athenagoras, shame and again shame!!

THE REAL CAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL PROBLEMS: FAITHLESSNESS AND HERESIES

We can debate financial abuses and mistakes endlessly — we have five decades’ worth in Astoria alone. However, the heart of the problem is revealed in the membership numbers: over the last twenty years, GOARCH membership has declined from approximately 500,000 to fewer than 125,000. Elpidophoros’s tenure significantly accelerated this trend.

Why are the faithful leaving? The answer is clear: because of the abandonment of the fundamental tenets of our faith, because of divisive, schismatic, and heretical policies originating from the Phanar and imposed here by “novelist” Elpidophoros and his Fordhamite “theologians.” From the schism over Ukrainian “Cacocephaly,” to pro-LGBTQ advocacy, to the materialism and greed emanating from Bartholomew himself (his predecessor Patriarch Demetrios slept in a tiny room in the Phanar — he lives in a $20-million mansion overlooking the Bosporus with a jacuzzi), to their Ecumenism and globalism, to their involvement in “pan-religion” and the “Abrahamic House” in Dubai — the Patriarchate and GOARCH are driving the faithful away.

This is the real cause of the financial problems. 

And the question Helleniscope has asked for eight years remains: Are they doing it deliberately — to bankrupt our parishes, sell their properties, and funnel the money to Switzerland and Turkey?

Especially in traditionally minded communities like Astoria, it is this faithlessness and heresy that people despise. Meanwhile, we are at a historic moment, after Charlie Kirk’s murder, America’s youth, in huge numbers, is seeking a return to traditional faith through Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Instead of riding this “wave back to the true Faith” and filling our churches with young people, GOARCH is pushing them away!

CONCLUSIONS – When trust is broken, only radical solutions can fix the problem. This Church must gain autonomy from the Phanar.

The common denominator of the recent events in Astoria and GOARCH in general is plain in front of our eyes: There is NO TRUST between the GOARCH leadership and the faithful. The glass is broken, and there is no way to put it back together.  We can propose several ideas (including the formation of a committee by former distinguished PC presidents/officials to serve temporarily and bring balance back to the Parish of Astoria), we can go to Court and blow GOARCH out of existence (let me note here that GOARCH is facing as we speak, multi-million dollar lawsuits), or we can talk and exchange ideas forever. But there will be no real solution until we officially break apart from the “Phanar Gang of Thieves” and gain some form of autonomy. The Spirit of the only true leader of this Church, Archbishop Iakovos, is looking upon us from high above and demands that we act according to his historic effort (because of which Bartholomew and Karloutsos backstabbed him and forced him to resign): The idea that the Church of America has to be Autonomous from any “Mother Church”..

Many worthy and faithful Greek-Americans made valiant efforts in this regard since Iakovos was forced to resign in 1996… Others, like Stathis Valiotis, pronounced the word “Autocephaly” in public and caused waves for one year (2018-19) – until they cowered back into their “business” and “comfort”.  Will he, and several others, stand up now? Or will he limit himself to behind-the-scenes “encouragement”, hiding behind his “business” once more? We do not need cowards!! We need honest Christian faithful to push for the only real solution to our problem: A substantial form of autonomy of our Church from the “Phanar Gang of Thieves”. We need to set aside our differences, STAY UNITED AS ONE MIND, focus on this goal, and achieve it!

October 8, 2025, n.stamatakis@aol.com   www.helleniscope.com

DISCLAIMER: The views and statements expressed in this article constitute constitutionally protected opinions of this author. This article represents the opinion of the author and shall not be interpreted as legal advice.

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BELOW THE NEWS REPORT IN CBS2 NEW YORK

 

31 COMMENTS

  1. Well, at least the GOARCH overlords can’t claim “it’s just a handful of complainers” if 1000 people show up yelling…not too bad of a turnout for a working / school day at such short notice….that’s probably why Fr. Villis was rendered speechless…

    Ultimately, the unified wrath and outrage of the faithful is the only thing the “divide & conquer” sultans fear…

    I’ll go order some more popcorn now…the next demonstration will probably draw 3x this crowd…

    By the way, why wasn’t Giannaris present to defend and explain how exactly he crafted that legislation? Why is he hiding from his angry constituents? :) His political career is certainly over, although he should resign for this betrayal nevertheless…

  2. Nick, thank you for posting this. I was wondering how it went and I am sure I was not the only one… It sounds like it went better than expected… The crowd was certainly impressive in number and hard to silence. There is hope that they will not be able to sell anything if so many people stand up to them.
    I am proud of my brothers and sisters, you voiced and represented what many of us would like to say to the phanar. If a Church is in sound financial standing and the parishioners’ donations cover the bills to maintain it, there is zero justification to sell anything. But the hierarchy treats it as real estate and forget that it DOES NOT belong to them.

    • Also, I agree the autonomy from Istambul is needed and not the kind of fake autonomy Barto created in Ukraine, but real autonomy…

      • Autonomy from a “den of thieves in rasa” and a return to Tradition is the objective…Organizational corruption is so deep on this side of the Atlantic, that a simple “severance” from the Phanar wouldn’t automatically solve things…
        The people standing up in the face of corruption, yelling “anaxios” to each and every one of the “corrupt ones”, and forcing a bunch of “resignations” is definitely a good start…

  3. I, myself had a demonstration outside of my church, because the priest and board president care only for the bottom line and had atttracted a vendor, during thne Greek Festival, that was peddling T-shirts with such words as F-CK YOUR FEELINGS and other hateful messages, that have no place in a church.

    . When I objected to that merchandise, and I said thatI will protest with my own signs, the priest had me trsspassed from the cgurch. I’m a 50 year parishioner, with hundreds of thousands of dollars donations. I still protested outside of church property. We need to protest.

    The archdiocese with her constant demands for the “haratsi”, to pay for Elipidoforos’ luxury stayes at the Ritz Carlton, plus, constant trips in first class, plus the priests’ high salaries, are tereating us, the parishioners as money producing nobodies. I demanded my sterwardship back. If everyone did that, maybe they’ll ttreat us with respect and find religion.

    Unfortunately, organiozed religion has hurt the faith more than any atheists or Moslem could ever do. One more thing, don’t address them as “eminence”, or Grace”. These are silly titles not based on Orthodox tradition. Just call them priest, Bishop and archbishop, if they are axioi to be called that. Most are not.

    • I applaud the act of your protest.
      I would say it’s not as much “organized religion” that is hurting the faith as much as “organized crime” masked in robes assuming control of Church governance…corrupt people should never be allowed into the clergy, and even if they become corrupt after-the-fact, they should be removed and even excommunicated, as the Canons provide.
      More active participation (protest) of the laity in this “anti-corruption” effort is what is needed, for sure…

    • Abba Pambo, a disciple of St. Anthony the Great, among others said that in the end times, the clergy would become worldly, indifferent to their own salvation and that of their flock, eager to run to the table, quarrelsome, lazy in prayer, and ready to accuse others. Should we be surprised that they allow t-shirts with foul sayings on them for sale at festivals when the mati is for sale where ever you go at Greek festivals and the priests don’t care.

  4. Who will open the books to trace where all the cash went and continues to go? I was not aware that Bart lived in a $20 million dollar mansion.

    Open the books.
    Elpi can jump up and down. Do not give him consent to sell anything.
    So sad. So sad.

  5. First off, everyone who was there to protest should get a round of applause. Bravo to all of you! You could have taken the easy road and stayed home and been selfish but instead did the right thing, made the effort and fought for something that is right. And thank you Nick for covering this and for the great video. As far as Athenagoras and Goarch- they completely failed and made fools of themselves last night. Athenagoras-(who lives in a bubble-always being treated with free respect and surrounded by nice people that always agree with whatever he says) thought his “charisma” and meaningless phrases like, “we’re Greeks and we’re Orthodox etc..” was going to win over the enraged crowd with those cheap phrases and they would just disperse and go home. Boy did he get a reality check! He wasn’t dealing last night with the run of the mill retired giagia and pappou Sunday church-goer who are always polite and kind and kiss the priest’s hand etc..He dealt with the Greeks that he rarely interacts with. The one’s that work hard day and night long hours in the streets who don’t take any BS. They may come to church once or twice a year but they defend their Greek and Orthodox heritage when it comes down to it. GOARCH Greatly miscalculated this one thinking a few old people will probably just show up and they’ll just dazzle them with their charisma. Nope-didn’t happen here! They’ve lost all the respect they had from the people from this point on. They think we live in the middle ages where they are the kings and we’re their subjects. They need to get those ideas out of their heads. They are not kings and we are not subject to them. We respect the rasso. That’s why we treat them so good. Not because of who they are as individuals. And all Fr Villis could do is put on a “tough guy look”. Don’t anger the Greeks especially the Astoria Greeks. We respect our priests but when you cross the line, we will not put up with any shi* no matter if you are a bishop, archbishop, or patriarch! Go back to your archdiocese, think about what you tried to do, and issue an apology to the community of St Demetrios of Astoria and reinstate the parish council. Elpidoforo, needs to resign ASAP! if not be immediately removed by the patriarch. Anyone that is an archon, or in leadership 100 needs to remove their support of this archbishop immediately. Once the funding is cut off he’s finished.

      • I don’t know if that would help. THey might just say they have to close more churches because of “severe financial strain”. Someone honest and capable has to keep a check and balance on the donations that is not corrupt and doesn’t stick their hands in the candy jar.

        • Unfortunately most people hanging around “the candy jar” these days are descendants of Judas who “hung around the money box” back in the day…

          Bob is correct that “financial strangulation” is in definitely order. That precedent clearly worked when the Archons leveraged it as a condition to remove Archbishop Spyridon.

          However, it is still true that in theory the 100 “richest” GOARCH archons could easily fund the entire Archdiocese budget if they wished…So ultimately, if the parishes collectively decide that
          1) It’s ok to pay the priest
          2) It’s ok to pay the parish bills
          3) It’s NOT OK to pay anything to the Archdiocese or the Patriarchate…

          ….The “multi-million dollar question” becomes: will the Archons decide to “float” the Archdiocese in a scenario like that? If they do, we will be in a bit of a stalemate, where the laity at large will be “voicing their opinion” with their wallets (kind of a referendum of sorts), but the elitist “one percenters of GOARCH” will take over funding the corrupt engine… The only option in a scenario like that will be for the laity to go to other jurisdictions, and perhaps convince them to allow new parishes with the Greek “Typikon” under their bishop’s “omoforion”… Precedent exists in the Black Sea, with Greek communities thriving under Georgia and Russia…and let us not forget, Antioch is actually a Greek typikon jurisdiction, so it wouldn’t be an anomaly to re-infuse some more Greek in their parish services…

          Let’s see what happens…

          • “The only option in a scenario like that will be for the laity to go to other jurisdictions, and perhaps convince them to allow new parishes with the Greek “Typikon” under their bishop’s “omoforion”… Precedent exists in the Black Sea, with Greek communities thriving under Georgia and Russia…and let us not forget, Antioch is actually a Greek typikon jurisdiction, so it wouldn’t be an anomaly to re-infuse some more Greek in their parish services…”

            Certainly this could work but it would take a movement, to accomplish. When will the greeks have enough? So far they are taking a lot of abuse. I do not know of any other OC with so many scandals at the moment. Some scandals to exist everywhere but they are isolated. But not like in the GOARCH, where they are magnified and wide spread.

          • I agree with Bob. The “top 1%” will get pretty darn pretty darn quick floating the sinking ship if all of the GOA did two things:

            1. decrease their stewardship to $100,
            2. stop sponsoring Greek festivals.

            Problem solved.

  6. Maybe the only thing that could solve the problems is protests like this everywhere they go until they step down. I think if a few significant ones would step down, the others would behave better. In the past, we do have examples when bishops did something wrong and people held them accountable. I am sure other bishops in other OCs (not greek) leave a little these days a bit too extravagant for a bishop but it seems that the greeks surpassed them all. I never heard such stories and I do follow what is happening in the OC world wide as much as I can find out. I remember once reading a story about a bishop that people from another country came to visit because they learned about his humility. And the visitors went to visit the monastery the bishop was living in. And he was not in his office. Then the visitors asked around where the bishop was and a monk told them to go to the construction area because he was there.
    They were stunned to find the bishop working side by side with the other monks, pouring concrete to the foundation of a building. He was dressed as a simple monk and the visitors left with a lesson of humility. Those bishops today do not inspire me like the bishop that I wrote about. He passed away a few years ago but he is worth of remembering and I have read other stories about many, many humble bishops that are monks above all else, that do lots of prayers and lots of good works and live very, very simply.
    St. John Maximovich is also an example, he helped lots of orphan children and was sleeping on a chair so he could pray the whole night instead of sleeping comfortably. St. Necktarios also a humble example. What is happening today? I understand not many of us can sleep in a chair and are willing to live a simple life and eat very little, or help with hard labor such as pour concrete if we can avoid it… but at least… a life that is not scandalous and extravagant is what we should hope for… from our bishops.

  7. Google maps (GM) may hold a clue to the motive for selling St. Demetrios.

    Nearby Catholic elementary/middle schools: Immaculate Conception Academy, Marymount School, Our Lady Queen of Angels, Our Lady of Fatima Catholic Academy, St. David’s School, St. Francis of Assis Catholic Academy, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Joan of Arc School, St. Joseph Catholic Academy, The Cathedral School.

    Nearby Catholic high schools: Abp Molloy HS, Cathedral HS, Convent of the Sacred Heart, Cristo Rey NY HS, Dominican Academy, Marymount School, Monsignor McClancy Memorial, St. David’s School, St. John Baptiste, St. John’s Preparatory, St. Vincent Ferrer.

    Nearby Orthodox elementary / middle: Academy of Hellenic Paideia, Hellenic School of St. Markella, Holy Cross Greek School (closed?), St. Nicholas William Spyroupoulos School

    Nearby Orthodox high: NONE.

    Motives:

    Phase I:
    1. Buy Patriarchal throne.
    2. Integrate St. Demetrios’ families into Catholic schools.
    3. Win Diocesan good will.

    Phase II:

    4. Sell additional Orthodox churches using appearance of incompetence.
    5. Global: Advance toward reunification with Rome.
    6. Local: Use NY as first site of reunion. Clergy infrastructure already in place. New Patriarch has local ties.
    7. Expand union throughout North America.

      • I have had a belief that this man made GOARCH crisis, along with OCU crises, and with the church at ground zero where a lot of the money went poof, and many other crises created by barto, is created to funnel money to sponsor the union with Rome and a “church of the future” and bribe everyone to come along.

        They need money to funnel a change, a big change of great magnitude. Similar to Ukraine, I think some of the money Barto got to “liberate” ukrainians from the “evil” russian church went into paying people to show up and steal OCU churches. It is on video that some of them admit they are paid well to “protest”. And Barto is meeting with Leo, “the one without equals” and the “infallible one” a meeting that looks like it will take place later this year. Nothing good can come out of it. Only betrayal. UOC and ROC is really like a thorn in their side and reaping UOC from ROC will weaken the ROC. With ROC and UOC standing strong, the union will not take place. The money will be used to create the united church where everything is permitted, as we can see sins have been “lifted” and become normality, in the name of “brotherhood love”. They are created the church of antichrist because Christ can not be in such a church, with female clergy, not to mention homosexual inspired clothing and icons… and where the need for repentance is not longer necessary…

  8. The people present fail to score spiritual points when they appealed to the spirit of Greek Nationalism by singing the Greek National Anthem instead of Ti Ipermaho, at least symbolically to invoke the Panagia as our Champion Leader. If all this is for the people is just about Greek Identity then maybe they deserve to lose what they have to the eunuch wolves in clerical garb.

    • You are totally WRONG!! The banners and signs at the rally were mostly about Orthodoxy!! The people were absolutely correct to sing the Greek national anthem and shout slogans because it it the Greedy Phanariots who are in bed with the Neo-Ottomans and Erdogan at the same time as they are certified agents of the CIA and the State Department. Yes, for us Greeks this is also an issue of ethnic identity: the Phanariots execute a plan devised in Turkey and aiming at the suppression or extinction globally of the most important foundation of Hellenism – the Diaspora!! Don’t forget that it was Hellenic Cosmopolitanism in the times of Alexander the Great that gave rise to Christianity – and not “caballah” getto Judaism… it was Hellenic Cosmpolitanism and Stoic philosophy that produced Christianity. Don’t fool yourselves with the lies of the “judeochristians”…

    • Look at the GREEK Flag. It has a CROSS on it.
      Listen to the Words of the Greek National Anthem.
      Who blessed the Greek revolution and the Greeks who fought for Independence from the Turks
      The Greek National Anthem is as much about FAITH as it is about Nationality.
      For a Greek the two are inseparable.

  9. Nick, it was Jesus Christ who produced Christianity as the Messiah who fulfilled OT prophesies. St Paul clearly states that no other foundation can be laid other than Jesus Christ. Your exaggerated statements about Hellenism are challenges to your credibility. Surely, Hellenism is foundational to Western civilization.

    • Jesus wasn’t born and made a prophet out of a vacuum. If it wasn’t for Hellenic cosmopolitanism and stoicism there would be no Christianity.

  10. Nich are you suggesting that our Lord’s divinity is a product of Hellenism. Furthermore, Jesus was not a prophet but rather God in the flesh. Please you are espousing heresy.

    • There is no reason to be narrow-minded. Do not confuse divinity with the effort to explain where Saint Paul’s and Christianity’s central idea “there is no Jew and Gentile, no man and woman etc” came from. This most central idea would not exist without 3-4 centuries of Hellenic philosophy and especially stoicism and at least 3 centuries of Hellenic practice if such philosophy (cosmopolitanism by Alexander the Great and its successors). You are acting like kindergarten kids.

  11. Nick, Jesus was born the Messiah He did not become the messiah. He was born into a Jewish family with a Jewish mother of the house of David; He was Jewish. God’s plan was to embrace all people. We see elements of this in the OT and the fulfillment of God’s plan in Christ and through the church, which is the new Israel. Obviously, Christianity was influenced by Hellenism but it was God’s plan to embrace all people. As I stated earlier, Christ is the foundation of the church not Hellenism.

    • Again, you are acting like a kid. Many Fathers of the Church spoke of the influence of Greek philosophy on Christianity – are they heretic? Using our knowledge of history and philosophy to describe and explain the rise of Christianity is not heresy. Saint John the Chrysostom very early on suggested “critical appropriation” of elements of Greek philosophy into Christianity at a time when Christian Emperors were destroying the Academy of Athens annd persecuting Greek philosophers. Or you will ignore that Byzantine Emperors Theodosius and Justinian persectued Greek philosophers equally as harsh as the Romans had persecuted Christians? If it wasn’t for the Persian Emperor Hosroe all these ancient Greek authors would have been lost…

      The plain reality is that Ancient Greek Philosophy in its most elaborate form, Stoicism, developed AND PRACTICED in the three centuries of Alexandrian GREEK COSMOPOLITANISM was and is a much more elaborate and perfected system of thought and knowledge and religion that could have developed in the rather narrow settings of Judaism. This is why we had a huge movement / conversion of Judaic philosophers to Hellenism mostly around Alexandria. Have you heard of HELLENIZED JEWS? Among them were those who translated the Old Testament to Greek…

  12. Nick, stoicism is a man made philosophy. Christianity is a direct revelation from God . The stoics were polytheists and Judaism/Christianity are monotheistic faiths. Every Sunday, when the creed is recited, we state, I believe in one God. A stoic could not make this confession of faith.

    • The convergence is very clear: the stoics believed the universe is pervaded by a rational principle called the Logos (λόγος), sometimes described as divine reason or the soul of the world.

      This Logos orders and sustains everything — it’s impersonal, rational, and present in all things.

      Early Christians, especially writers like the author of John’s Gospel, used the same Greek word Logos (“Word”) but redefined it:

      “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.” (John 1:1)

      However, the Christian Logos is personal and incarnate in Jesus — not an impersonal cosmic principle. So Christians adapted Stoic language to explain their theology, but their concept of God remained biblically monotheistic. BUT LOGOS IS GOD.

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