PHOTO: From a large Liturgy in San Diego with over 800 participants. The photo says it all!
EDITOR’S NOTE (Nick Stamatakis): Among the many “interesting” issues that came up in the Clergy-Laity Congress of San Diego, it appears that the heretic Archbishop made one more effort to “modernize” Orthodoxy. In a special panel, titled “Women In Orthodoxy: Past, Present and Future”, a trial balloon was floated again regarding “women deaconesses” and related issues. Archdeacon John Chryssavgis was present and along with the moderator tried to shut down someone who dared express an opposing view, proving that they were on a mission and not willing to debate anything. Below the video of the panel and some commentary by Markos, Helleniscope’s moderator.
Our Commentator, Markos, had the following to say about this session “On Women Deaconesses”:
At least this 1.5 hour session was recorded, so that people can have the opportunity to draw their own conclusions, but at first glance, here are some of the highlights of this forum, which is really an observed blend of legitimate confusion and misguided propaganda:
Dr. Helen seems to openly and dangerously question/dismiss/imply that some of the decisions of the 7 ecumenical councils as “anachronistic”, especially when she makes her statement around the 11th minute of the video, “…in the 21st century…” Certainly not a conservative academic…it’s also not good for her to use the term “canonical decision” when referring to the association of the Patriarchate of Alexandria Synod with the Zimbabwe Deaconess fiasco, especially when in the Patriarch’s subsequent “explanation and plea for patience” it was clear that the “Synod had not fully decided on the matter” yet…so Helen’s claim of the Synod making a “canonical decision” is actually a bit deceptive here, especially with so many strongly dissenting voices within that Synod, including the retired Metropolitan of Antinoe’s statement that Helleniscope also cited several weeks ago. She also had some “bold” opinions about the legitimacy of another specific Canon at 1:10, but she doesn’t exactly answer the question of why throughout so many centuries, she can’t cite a single woman saint (many of them miracle workers) that actually agreed with her perspective…again, St. Kosmas words come to mind… “απο τους διαβασμενους θα ερθει το κακο”…
Kira Limperakis is exposing an important educational gap, by citing a list of “why” questions, but it is clear that the underlying point of the speech is not advocating increased awareness and education on these same questions, but rather seems to go down the path of citing some stories of female victims, followed by statistics of young women that have left the Church, and finally making the allusion that “inclusion of more women leaders” in the Church is somehow going to solve the root causes for apostasy that she is actually not mentioning in her speech. Is there really a lack of women “leaders” in the form of Abessess in monasteries that they can go talk to for a “woman to woman” discussion? Is it accidental that nuns didn’t show up to this forum or panel to provide their opinions as well? Something is off here, including a comparative analysis of the root reasons and associated percentages that males leave the Church at a young age.
Sarah is a graduate of Fordham University. There’s no need for further commentary, because the “Fordhamite flavor” of “theology” is very well documented, so the underlying influences are easily discerned in the speech. She is young, has lots to still experience and learn, and we wish her the best in her future studies. However, the most important statement she makes is “if it were not for my professors at Fordham, I would have slipped away”…that is a legitimate, larger problem that is not materially solved in any way by revival of the “deaconess” role. Making a sacrificial life in Christ relevant in a secular, self-centered, egotistical, materialistic, and almost pagan society is not an “easy sell” these days, and that applies to both “cradle Orthodox” males and females, which are leaving the Church equally in droves…why? Most likely because our the Church leaders today “lack authenticity” of our Church Fathers of times past, and in an era where the population is highly educated, a lack of authenticity drives the faithful away very quickly…is the revival of a Deaconess role somehow going to automatically restore authenticity among the male priests and bishops, or even among the Orthodox Christian Lay population which in North America feels increasingly entitled to tell the clergy what to do, even when they have insufficient Catechisis, understanding of Tradition, and Orthopraxia? Highly unlikely…This observed behavior of uninstructed laity controlling and influencing the clergy (however unauthentic they also might be) is a form of Reformist Protestantism in itself. Deaconesses are not the solution here, either way.
John Chryssavgis is a known entity, with a recent history of controversial positions that puts him at odds with traditional points of view, and as an Archdeacon of the Ecumenical Patriarchate…no surprises there that he has become the “token ρασοφορο” on a “reformist-feminist” panel at a clergy laity discussion…although in this case, his crowning moment is calling all of us “heretics”, by alluding that an image of “sea of black robes and beards doesn’t achieve ‘fullness’ of the church” (because women aren’t represented in this image) …ironically, he echoes the 21st century argument, and urges the “need to reform” this situation…His closing statements on what “Liturgy is about” are actually quite disturbing… it’s really hard to watch this part of the video, to be honest.
The audience was generally “friendly”, and not “challenging” in the sense of the types of questions that were asked. This is not surprising… However, one lady tried to counter the panelists, and the moderator shut her down… another lady tried to state (at 1:18) that the panel only represented a fraction of women, and that she personally did not feel represented by the panel, and John Chryssavgis tried to “shut her down” rather quickly, in a condescending (ironically chauvinist) manner, typical of these panels and their moderators. It is clear that only one narrative was allowed, and that debate was to be avoided in this forum.
Chrysavgis is an “advisor” to the patriarch. Why does a patriarch need an advisor? What happened to praying to the holy Spirit and getting his advise from the Holy Spirit?. Chrysavgis is one of those do-nothing, get paid handsomely type, that surfaces any time we need to be talked down. He gave us a tongue lashing, because of our backwardness, not supporting the AB’s baptizing the children of the gay couple.
The dissenters get shut down because the ‘panelists’ are afraid—afraid that their position is rather weak in regards to having a female diaconate!
These heretics are clearly pseudo intellectuals. The last place you should look at for Orthodox spirituality is among these sick souls.
You don’t need a PhD in western theology to know that God made us male and female, each with our own distinct charismata.
To all believers, a priest is a representative of Christ, whom we worship as the Bridegroom of the Church. If a woman is made a priest, will we she be the Bride of the Bride?
Father Thomas Hopko, of blessed memory, used to ask: Why did Christ gather twelve male disciples?
He certainly was not afraid to “scandalize” the world with a radical approach. What could have been more radical than to declare his own resurrection? So there is a reason God made us different, male and female, and yet calls us both sexes to earn sainthood, theosis, in our own different ways.
I am Orthodox, so I will not let these pitiful pseudo-academics tell me my Faith needs modernizing. My faith in the Church of the Ecumenical Councils will not be shaken by these agents of Satan.
Women have always had a prominent and if I may say dominant position in the Church… Here we have a classic case of “getting lost in translation”. The term “deacon” has the meaning of helper/assistant which in terms of women is PURELY secular. In the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church there are NO WOMEN clergy, and since Chanters are the simpler form of Clergy there can be no women on the Analogion as there can be no women in the Hieron. In short: women have been serving the Church but NOT as Clergy. The genocidal protestantization and therefore the destruction of our One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church won’t pass and those who promote them will be treated like Demonically possessed enemies of Jesus Christ and our ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church.
“I am Orthodox, so I will not let these pitiful pseudo-academics tell me my Faith needs modernizing. My faith in the Church of the Ecumenical Councils will not be shaken by these agents of Satan.”
Amen, Leo. I agree with you 100%.
God gave us all Free Will to think/do as we please. But they claim/represent themselves as Orthodox clergy, which is totally UNACCEPTABLE to me.
I used to view them as heretics; then hypocrites. Now I believe they must be atheists, because their brazen undermining of the Church reveals a total disregard for God’s Will. Arrogant, self-iimportant atheists.